Yeah I mean only reporting money you withdraw is unethical and scummy, as in like you make 100k and withdraw 60k only report 60k, but if you report the whole thing and deduct vig I'm pretty sure that's a legitimate business expense, you are paying someone for a service related to your business.

I'm pretty sure you could deduct the $50 wire fee or with a clear conscience also.

What I want to know is how no one is nervous about being stuck with money laundering charges, especially anyone withdrawing money for someone who lives in a state where internet gambling is explicitly illegal. I mean, even in the places where it isn't, it would seem like you could get charged pretty easily for helping someone to move money to abet what at least certain law enforcement organizations would consider a crime?

I was gonna get into a thing of helping people move money off in conjunction with someone I knew in Europe, but when our first "client" or whatever was someone from WA, I was like wait a minute, I'm pretty sure this would be laundering money here, this 10% vig or whatever is totally not worth going to prison for.

I guess most people doing withdrawals are just in Europe though and assume no US law enforcement will come after them?

I assume as the person selling money, I would just say that I am moving money as poker funds and have never claimed it to be anything else, and am reporting it as poker income, so I don't see how they could claim I am trying to represent the money as being anything other than what it is, but I don't even know if that would technically hold up.

well i don't know specifics about american taxes, but in canada any vig you pay to withdraw would be deductible as a business expense. why would it be different?

If you play on PokerStars, I agree with reporting money when you earn it.

The rest of us are stuck with these ****ty sites with small withdrawal caps, huge cashout times, rubber checks, and the threat of them stealing our money completely (FTP, Everleaf?)

With that in mind, its not earned until it hits my bank account and doesn't bounce.

I would have sex with your girlfriend

I definitely am going to have to second this notion. Sorry Jeremy.

The first pic of her made my balls quiver a bit.

if adsense takes a jump ill have a talk with her

there also seem to be a lot more beaches in iowa and chicago than i was aware of

This is my mindset. Tbh does it even really matter whether u report winnings or withdrawals? As long as u keep reporting the withdrawals the govt ends up getting their full cut eventually.

In USA...it is entirely possible that the taxpayer may not be eligible to declare expenses (can't itemize). And by taxpayer...I'm gunna assume that most poker players are not eligible...but I could have the wrong impression of the majority.

The only thing that "really matters" is the fact that the way you describe is not how the tax codes are written and you are falsifying your tax return. My non-professional opinion is that you would get a minor slap on the wrist (owe the tax earned plus a 10-50% penalty,,,, penalty depending on lots of variables)

I've always wondered how much other work you'd need to do at another job/"job" to avoid filing as a professional so you don't have to pay the self-employment surtax

because of our progressive tax system, making 200k in year one and 100k in year two would not be the same tax liability as 150k in both years, so if you withdrew 100k both years, you would pay less taxes than you owed if you use the withdrawal method vs the earned method

I'm sure there are lots of people who did that on FTP that have been shting themselves for almost a year now.

i wasn't trying to direct someone to do one way or another, just clarifying that there can definitely be significantly different tax liabilities between the methods

it matters a lot whether you report "real winnings" in a year versus withdrawals. From what i understand atleast its like this.

2006: you be crushing, 1mirrion dollars earned. but you in college and want to keep you're money on the site to 8 table isildur when he comes around.

2007: you paid taxes on you're withdrawals of 250k. and then lost the rest 8 tabling isildur.

if caught, you are now fuked.

the us gov are bitches. they want their share regardless whether you ever see it in the bank or not. in this case, it is definitely you're fault to gamble 2006 winnings before paying your due taxes.

but for like people with money stuck on ftp its such a ****ty situation. you earned that cash in 2009 and am glad to pay your taxes. but having a million dollars on ftp after april 2010 is like you earned jack **** in 2009. yet i believe you were suppose to pay taxes on that million.

lolusa

what you're "supposed" to do is report it as you earn it (ie it's in your poker account). I don't think "as you withdraw" is in any way a legitimate accounting method. of course, had you done what you were "supposed" to do, you are fooked by the whole FT/AP situation because you declared your earnings and can't cash out. That's why I'm not going to look harsh on anyone for their accounting as long as they pay their fair share of taxes.

Also, I'm assuming everyone is reporting as a "pro". I think as a "part-timer," you can't really deduct a bunch of expenses, and that accounting is kind of ******ed, so you may have to do "other things".

I used to harp on people not paying their taxes, but we have been assraped by the govt repeatedly in the past year, so **** them.

Any other job that the govt took away from a person would have received a year's worth of unemployment thus far, and possibly lawsuits filed and won.

I reported everything legit but I kind of wish I hadn't at this point b/c of the whole FTP debacle. I left a fair amount in my acct from when i binked a miniFTOPs in late 2010. I mean why would these people who only reported withdrawals be ****ting themselves? Whats to stop them from just telling the gov't they won everything that was in their acct in 2011?

E v a s i o n ( s p )

I too have wondered this. Every year it is really tempting to just call myself an amateur and save a bundle. Is there some explicit amount of time I have to spend playing or amount of money I have to earn or what?

I've deducted far more in stuff I wouldn't be able to deduct as an amateur than I've paid in self-employment tax, although that does really suck hard.

types of things you deduct (Im a fish at this, thisll be my first year filing as a pro)?

Lost CCR's with poker players (business meeting, also can't deduct 100% forget what # is but CPA did all that), flights/hotels for trips you play poker on, gas for driving to casino, any internet charges/computer/office equipment you buy, probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.

you can deduct the portion of your rent that goes towards your office space

as well as health insurance. and half the SET is deductable

Oh could you not deduct health insurance as an amateur?