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NL100 passive fish goes wild on river

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02-12-2011 , 12:55 PM

Goertsy

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 304

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

CO: $107.45
BTN: $36.45
SB: $100.00
BB: $91.60
UTG: $193.65
UTG+1: $89.40
UTG+2: $112.05
MP1: $100.00
Hero (MP2): $105.70

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is MP2 with A

4 folds, Hero raises to $3, 3 folds, BB calls $2

Flop: ($6.50) 4

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($6.50) K

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($6.50) 9

(2 players)
BB bets $4.30, Hero raises to $13, BB raises to $88.60 all in, Hero ???

Villian seems like a passive fish. Only 21 hands tho.
24/0 with 0.3 AF.
His river bet and raise were super quick.

02-12-2011 , 01:05 PM

Suzukishosan

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,303

never a bluff imo. I'd just fold, not much invested in the pot

02-12-2011 , 01:11 PM

Goertsy

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 304

Yeah, clearly not bluffing. But he can do this with KJ or any 9, not just with sets (boats), or am I being too optimistic?

02-12-2011 , 01:14 PM

Suzukishosan

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,303

I don't think he ever has kj, maybe worse nines but i'd weight his range more towards boats.

So with better pot odds i'd call, but not in this spot

02-12-2011 , 02:26 PM

gazeintothefuture

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 442

Fold.

08-06-2014 , 10:05 AM

There_There

enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 66

Nobody mentioned Q10 for straight?

Q10 is what makes it a clear fold for me. If turn was 2/3/5/6/7 and this hand played out same I would call expecting worse 9s to make up most of villain's range.

08-06-2014 , 12:48 PM

MeleaB

See my Commercial Software thread

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,395

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzukishosan

never a bluff imo. I'd just fold, not much invested in the pot

This part is irrelevant.

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Never a bluff. You just have to figure out what percentage of his value hands you beat in these spots, and it's almost certainly not enough here. And his quick river bet/quick jam is more indicative of a made hand prior to the river card, so he's unlikely to be jamming worse trips.

08-07-2014 , 07:38 AM

Renton555

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 5,905

I bet flop with this specific middle pair.

Clear fold, he probably has a boat but could even have a straight and you still lose. I would also fold if he had reraised to like 35.

If he made it 35 I would call with QT though, vs this size i would fold everything up to and including 44, I think.

08-12-2014 , 01:21 AM

TheSamasaurus

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 603

Is it just me or should we bet on the flop in this spot

For value from a weaker 9 and to prevent junky gutshots and Tens, Queens and kings from seeing a card for free. we even have some backdoor spade equity and the option of taking a free card on the turn if need be

08-12-2014 , 09:52 AM

#10

MeleaB

See my Commercial Software thread

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 5,395

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton555

I bet flop...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSamasaurus

Is it just me or should we bet on the flop...

I doubt it's just you.

I'd also bet the flop, so that's at least 3 of us.

08-12-2014 , 10:20 AM

#11

tobe4funas

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 5,661

yea flop is a bet
as played turn might be a bet as well tho not as sure

08-13-2014 , 06:17 AM

#12

ILUVTHRILL

adept

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,120

Lol @ flopbet
Looool @ turnbet
Looool again @ turnbet.

08-13-2014 , 05:16 PM

#13

tobe4funas

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 5,661

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILUVTHRILL

Lol @ flopbet
Looool @ turnbet
Looool again @ turnbet.

too confused to even ask, but....?

08-13-2014 , 10:21 PM

#14

angeles

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,942

meh flop can be a bet or a check, its pretty whatever both have merits. Id probably lean towards betting more often than not here v a passive fish. Turn is certainly a check. As played fold river

08-14-2014 , 01:24 PM

#15

il_martilo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4,137

Against a villain that is presumably not check-raising the flop very often, checking it is lighting money on fire.

08-15-2014 , 12:56 AM

#16

Renton555

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 5,905

I bet flop because there are a non-trivial number of ways we end up with a nut flush, aces up, or trips by the river and I'd like a big pot when that happens.

08-15-2014 , 01:29 AM

#17

pontylad

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,720

Quote:

Originally Posted by il_martilo

Against a villain that is presumably not check-raising the flop very often, checking it is lighting money on fire.

Completely disagree. Most good players aren't x/r flop loads in general anyway.

I check the flop here. Turn is almost certainly a check regardless of flop. River I would like to say top of your range, can't fold blah blah but at 100nl this is never a bluff, and although you beat some of a fish/bad regs random value bet/3bets, it's not enough to call. So I prob make an exploitable fold.

08-15-2014 , 05:55 PM

#18

Don Melchor

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,662

Quote:

Originally Posted by pontylad

Completely disagree. Most good players aren't x/r flop loads in general anyway.

I check the flop here. Turn is almost certainly a check regardless of flop. River I would like to say top of your range, can't fold blah blah but at 100nl this is never a bluff, and although you beat some of a fish/bad regs random value bet/3bets, it's not enough to call. So I prob make an exploitable fold.

hey POnty, why are you not cb flop? every 9 calls a flop cbet, 4s probably will too, QT, T8,a few backdoors and some Ax that think they have the best hand, plus the fact that we can end up with the nuts by the river seem like good reasons to me

REst is standard if you raise fold river, imo

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