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| Small Stakes Full Ring Discussion of .50/1 and 1/2 online and 5/10 live no-limit and pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies |
06-08-2012, 07:44 PM
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#1
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: not winning at SD
Posts: 5,869
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LAG villain pots turn and river
villain is playing 30/20/3.8 CC 23% of hands in most MP-LP spots. He folds about 50% to flop cbets, 45% to turn cbets, 25% to river cbets (1/4 times). he's only raised one cbet in 92 chances and didn't raise mid set previously when he flopped it.
he coolered me once when he made a weirdly small squeeze in the BB when I opened UTG and a reg flatted the SB. He squeezed KQo in the BB, I flatted JJ to his 3bet, the other TAG flatted as well and we got it in on a JT9 flop. I coolered him earlier this session when I flopped bottom set and he flopped middle set and we got it in on the turn and I one outered him.
i made a bad call in a 3way 3bet pot when he rivered a straight after calling with a pair+gutter+flush draw on the turn on a 3s454s6 board and then I couldn't think of what hands would have that had a 7 in them other than 77. (he had 57ss).
he potted turn and river pretty quickly. Is this a pretty easy fold? his value range is super small and I haven't seen him pot before, but he's seen me show some stationy tendencies and probably thinks my range is capped when I c/c turn since he's seen me c/r (stack a donk) sets before.
PartyGaming - $2 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
BB: $219.32
UTG: $245.55
Hero (UTG+1): $374.42
MP: $210.25
MP+1: $403.88
LP: $235.50
CO: $216.65
BTN: $200.00
SB: $200.00
SB posts SB $1.00, BB posts BB $2.00
Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero has K  J
fold, Hero raises to $8.00, fold, MP+1 calls $8.00, fold, fold, BTN calls $8.00, fold, fold
Flop: ($27.00, 3 players) 9  K  6
Hero bets $18.00, MP+1 calls $18.00, fold
Turn: ($63.00, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $60.00, Hero calls $60.00
River: ($183.00, 2 players) 5
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $180.00,?????
Last edited by thepizzlefosho; 06-08-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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06-08-2012, 09:50 PM
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#2
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adept
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: forever with my poison arms
Posts: 808
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
callday baby!
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06-08-2012, 10:10 PM
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#3
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: looking for horses
Posts: 4,468
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
all day baby!
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06-08-2012, 10:18 PM
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#4
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veteran
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: @_'-'
Posts: 2,022
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
mehh not sure about calling
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06-08-2012, 10:23 PM
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#5
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adept
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: forever with my poison arms
Posts: 808
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
nits itt
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06-08-2012, 10:24 PM
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#6
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newbie
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ron jeremy to your face!
Posts: 48
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
ballday caby!
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06-09-2012, 11:30 AM
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#7
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veteran
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: @_'-'
Posts: 2,022
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
Quote:
Originally Posted by angeles
nits itt
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lol oh please
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06-09-2012, 01:31 PM
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#8
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,942
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepizzlefosho
villain is playing 30/20/3.8 CC 23% of hands in most MP-LP spots. He folds about 50% to flop cbets, 45% to turn cbets, 25% to river cbets (1/4 times). he's only raised one cbet in 92 chances and didn't raise mid set previously when he flopped it.
he coolered me once when he made a weirdly small squeeze in the BB when I opened UTG and a reg flatted the SB. He squeezed KQo in the BB, I flatted JJ to his 3bet, the other TAG flatted as well and we got it in on a JT9 flop. I coolered him earlier this session when I flopped bottom set and he flopped middle set and we got it in on the turn and I one outered him.
i made a bad call in a 3way 3bet pot when he rivered a straight after calling with a pair+gutter+flush draw on the turn on a 3s454s6 board and then I couldn't think of what hands would have that had a 7 in them other than 77. (he had 57ss).
he potted turn and river pretty quickly. Is this a pretty easy fold? his value range is super small and I haven't seen him pot before, but he's seen me show some stationy tendencies and probably thinks my range is capped when I c/c turn since he's seen me c/r (stack a donk) sets before.
PartyGaming - $2 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
BB: $219.32
UTG: $245.55
Hero (UTG+1): $374.42
MP: $210.25
MP+1: $403.88
LP: $235.50
CO: $216.65
BTN: $200.00
SB: $200.00
SB posts SB $1.00, BB posts BB $2.00
Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero has K  J
fold, Hero raises to $8.00, fold, MP+1 calls $8.00, fold, fold, BTN calls $8.00, fold, fold
Flop: ($27.00, 3 players) 9  K  6
Hero bets $18.00, MP+1 calls $18.00, fold
Turn: ($63.00, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $60.00, Hero calls $60.00
River: ($183.00, 2 players) 5
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $180.00,?????
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lag gunna lag
serious strat is just fold turn
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06-09-2012, 01:36 PM
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#9
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: French fish
Posts: 3,607
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinivici9586
serious strat is just fold turn
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Can't fold turn, but I agree
And definitely fold riva.
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06-09-2012, 01:46 PM
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#10
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,942
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13_Xerxes
Can't fold turn, but I agree
And definitely fold riva.
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i dont see why we can't fold turn. you're facing a massive river bet a lot, and when you hit your flush you might not be good, or he has position and chks
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06-09-2012, 04:43 PM
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#11
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adept
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: forever with my poison arms
Posts: 808
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
fold turn or call river, calling river is best. his range is pretty capped vua betsize unless we can expect him to be potting KQ+ like this, which i think is unlikely.
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06-09-2012, 04:44 PM
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#12
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: French fish
Posts: 3,607
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinivici9586
i dont see why we can't fold turn. you're facing a massive river bet a lot, and when you hit your flush you might not be good, or he has position and chks
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I said "I agree"
It is probably +EV to fold the turn, but I can't with my TP3K + 2NFD  (call it "mental leak")
But I think we have probably a lot of outs when behind, because he got a ton of 6x when he pots, and sometimes we are good UI when the river goes check/check.
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06-09-2012, 04:57 PM
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#13
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: not winning at SD
Posts: 5,869
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
I agree that either call call or fold turn is theoretically best, but again this is the first time I've seen him mash pot on any street and it definitely threw me off. fwiw I don't think he's a great player but he's certainly doing a lot of things right (trying to use position and aggression) and is certainly capable mixing things up.
I guess I need to go back and look at what he does vs flop cbet turn check lines and see what his turn betting range consists of and what his sizings look like. It might give me a clue to what he's thinking in this scenario, or more importantly what isn't in his turn 2/3-3/4 pot bet that might make up his turn pot mash range.
I folded the river like a little bitch. I figure he's capable of doing this with any 6x and probably AA (I'm not sure if he 3bets this pf as almost all of his 3bets have come out of the blinds). And with a J and club blockers I eliminate some of his bluff floating range. Plus I figured if he had a big draw on the turn he wouldn't want to mash pot and risk getting c/r'd off of his equity since I've done that before. I would've expected a smaller bet that would have allowed him to call a not huge turn c/r. plus 87 got there which doesnt help.
I just felt gross folding because his value range seems so small, but past history indicated that he's not raising the top of his range on the flop so it's all still there on the turn and river.
Last edited by thepizzlefosho; 06-09-2012 at 05:04 PM.
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06-09-2012, 05:18 PM
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#14
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adept
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: forever with my poison arms
Posts: 808
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
this deep i think he is probly raising the top of his range a good % of the time which should eliminate some combos. hes playing 30 vpip so he does have some 6x but really i only see 65s 67s and 78s as legit hands that beat us.
ofc if hes flattingthese hell also have a good % of missed draws as well, and he isnt pot potting w/ KQ so i call.
i have a much bigger call button than a fold button though, so call me maybe
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06-25-2012, 11:50 AM
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#15
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centurion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 156
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river
Whats the reasoning behind c/cing turn instead of double barreling?
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