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Old 06-08-2012, 07:44 PM   #1
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LAG villain pots turn and river

villain is playing 30/20/3.8 CC 23% of hands in most MP-LP spots. He folds about 50% to flop cbets, 45% to turn cbets, 25% to river cbets (1/4 times). he's only raised one cbet in 92 chances and didn't raise mid set previously when he flopped it.

he coolered me once when he made a weirdly small squeeze in the BB when I opened UTG and a reg flatted the SB. He squeezed KQo in the BB, I flatted JJ to his 3bet, the other TAG flatted as well and we got it in on a JT9 flop. I coolered him earlier this session when I flopped bottom set and he flopped middle set and we got it in on the turn and I one outered him.

i made a bad call in a 3way 3bet pot when he rivered a straight after calling with a pair+gutter+flush draw on the turn on a 3s454s6 board and then I couldn't think of what hands would have that had a 7 in them other than 77. (he had 57ss).

he potted turn and river pretty quickly. Is this a pretty easy fold? his value range is super small and I haven't seen him pot before, but he's seen me show some stationy tendencies and probably thinks my range is capped when I c/c turn since he's seen me c/r (stack a donk) sets before.

PartyGaming - $2 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $219.32
UTG: $245.55
Hero (UTG+1): $374.42
MP: $210.25
MP+1: $403.88
LP: $235.50
CO: $216.65
BTN: $200.00
SB: $200.00

SB posts SB $1.00, BB posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero has K J

fold, Hero raises to $8.00, fold, MP+1 calls $8.00, fold, fold, BTN calls $8.00, fold, fold

Flop: ($27.00, 3 players) 9 K 6
Hero bets $18.00, MP+1 calls $18.00, fold

Turn: ($63.00, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $60.00, Hero calls $60.00

River: ($183.00, 2 players) 5
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $180.00,?????

Last edited by thepizzlefosho; 06-08-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:50 PM   #2
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

callday baby!
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:10 PM   #3
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

all day baby!
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:18 PM   #4
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

mehh not sure about calling
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:23 PM   #5
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

nits itt
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:24 PM   #6
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

ballday caby!
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:30 AM   #7
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

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nits itt
lol oh please
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:31 PM   #8
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepizzlefosho View Post
villain is playing 30/20/3.8 CC 23% of hands in most MP-LP spots. He folds about 50% to flop cbets, 45% to turn cbets, 25% to river cbets (1/4 times). he's only raised one cbet in 92 chances and didn't raise mid set previously when he flopped it.

he coolered me once when he made a weirdly small squeeze in the BB when I opened UTG and a reg flatted the SB. He squeezed KQo in the BB, I flatted JJ to his 3bet, the other TAG flatted as well and we got it in on a JT9 flop. I coolered him earlier this session when I flopped bottom set and he flopped middle set and we got it in on the turn and I one outered him.

i made a bad call in a 3way 3bet pot when he rivered a straight after calling with a pair+gutter+flush draw on the turn on a 3s454s6 board and then I couldn't think of what hands would have that had a 7 in them other than 77. (he had 57ss).

he potted turn and river pretty quickly. Is this a pretty easy fold? his value range is super small and I haven't seen him pot before, but he's seen me show some stationy tendencies and probably thinks my range is capped when I c/c turn since he's seen me c/r (stack a donk) sets before.

PartyGaming - $2 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $219.32
UTG: $245.55
Hero (UTG+1): $374.42
MP: $210.25
MP+1: $403.88
LP: $235.50
CO: $216.65
BTN: $200.00
SB: $200.00

SB posts SB $1.00, BB posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero has K J

fold, Hero raises to $8.00, fold, MP+1 calls $8.00, fold, fold, BTN calls $8.00, fold, fold

Flop: ($27.00, 3 players) 9 K 6
Hero bets $18.00, MP+1 calls $18.00, fold

Turn: ($63.00, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $60.00, Hero calls $60.00

River: ($183.00, 2 players) 5
Hero checks, MP+1 bets $180.00,?????
lag gunna lag

serious strat is just fold turn
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:36 PM   #9
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

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Originally Posted by vinivici9586 View Post
serious strat is just fold turn
Can't fold turn, but I agree

And definitely fold riva.
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:46 PM   #10
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

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Can't fold turn, but I agree

And definitely fold riva.
i dont see why we can't fold turn. you're facing a massive river bet a lot, and when you hit your flush you might not be good, or he has position and chks
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:43 PM   #11
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

fold turn or call river, calling river is best. his range is pretty capped vua betsize unless we can expect him to be potting KQ+ like this, which i think is unlikely.
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:44 PM   #12
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

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Originally Posted by vinivici9586 View Post
i dont see why we can't fold turn. you're facing a massive river bet a lot, and when you hit your flush you might not be good, or he has position and chks
I said "I agree"

It is probably +EV to fold the turn, but I can't with my TP3K + 2NFD (call it "mental leak")

But I think we have probably a lot of outs when behind, because he got a ton of 6x when he pots, and sometimes we are good UI when the river goes check/check.
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:57 PM   #13
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

I agree that either call call or fold turn is theoretically best, but again this is the first time I've seen him mash pot on any street and it definitely threw me off. fwiw I don't think he's a great player but he's certainly doing a lot of things right (trying to use position and aggression) and is certainly capable mixing things up.

I guess I need to go back and look at what he does vs flop cbet turn check lines and see what his turn betting range consists of and what his sizings look like. It might give me a clue to what he's thinking in this scenario, or more importantly what isn't in his turn 2/3-3/4 pot bet that might make up his turn pot mash range.

I folded the river like a little bitch. I figure he's capable of doing this with any 6x and probably AA (I'm not sure if he 3bets this pf as almost all of his 3bets have come out of the blinds). And with a J and club blockers I eliminate some of his bluff floating range. Plus I figured if he had a big draw on the turn he wouldn't want to mash pot and risk getting c/r'd off of his equity since I've done that before. I would've expected a smaller bet that would have allowed him to call a not huge turn c/r. plus 87 got there which doesnt help.

I just felt gross folding because his value range seems so small, but past history indicated that he's not raising the top of his range on the flop so it's all still there on the turn and river.

Last edited by thepizzlefosho; 06-09-2012 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:18 PM   #14
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

this deep i think he is probly raising the top of his range a good % of the time which should eliminate some combos. hes playing 30 vpip so he does have some 6x but really i only see 65s 67s and 78s as legit hands that beat us.

ofc if hes flattingthese hell also have a good % of missed draws as well, and he isnt pot potting w/ KQ so i call.

i have a much bigger call button than a fold button though, so call me maybe
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:50 AM   #15
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Re: LAG villain pots turn and river

Whats the reasoning behind c/cing turn instead of double barreling?
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