Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > No Limit Hold'em > Small Stakes Full Ring

Notices

Small Stakes Full Ring Discussion of .50/1 and 1/2 online and 5/10 live no-limit and pot-limit Texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-04-2012, 08:05 PM   #1
old hand
 
tobe4funas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: in a seriously confused mind
Posts: 1,713
100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11787902

    BTN: $98.50 (98.5 bb)
    Hero (SB): $100.50 (100.5 bb)
    BB: $122.89 (122.9 bb)
    UTG: $114.44 (114.4 bb)
    MP: $101.21 (101.2 bb)
    CO: $91.49 (91.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with K A
    UTG folds, MP raises to $3, CO calls $3, BTN folds, Hero raises to $12, BB folds, MP calls $9, CO folds

    Flop: ($28) 8 8 7 (2 players)
    Hero bets $16, MP calls $16

    Turn: ($60) A (2 players)



    Villain 11/9, fold to 3b 60%, call 30% (10 samples).
    He's a really solid reg (I think), never seen him do anything stupid. Haven't done anything stupid against him either.
    Caller is a terrible 27/12 fish who doesn't fold at all postflop if he hits anything.

    Anyways just wanted to check my logic - in general he's calling my 3b with like TT+ (maybe even JJ+)/AQ+, not sure if he 4bets AK/QQ.
    Cbet OTF (btw sizing's probably too small, no?) should get some credit as I don't 3bet him much and on this board I have little FE against his range, so I expect him to sometimes fold TT? also AQ+ - stuff i chop with or has equity/bluff opportunities against me.
    When he calls I put him strictly on pairs and therefore betting will receive too many folds? So what is the best line? C/r and vbet river smallish if checked behind?
    tobe4funas is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-04-2012, 08:15 PM   #2
    veteran
     
    ChoiceAsBro's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jun 2009
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Posts: 2,059
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    I'd bet even smaller on the flop, I don't expect him to fold anything really and it sets you up better for bet, bet, shove.

    On this turn I'd bet always, he knows its a great barrel card so should be really suspicious when you don't bet it so I doubt he's going to turn JJ into a bluff or something if that's what you're hoping for.

    Just bet the turn 1/2 pot and shove the river, you're making it too hard.
    ChoiceAsBro is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-04-2012, 08:36 PM   #3
    Carpal \'Tunnel
     
    hurt's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2008
    Posts: 7,031
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    checking would be really tagfishy
    hurt is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-04-2012, 08:49 PM   #4
    old hand
     
    tobe4funas's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2011
    Location: in a seriously confused mind
    Posts: 1,713
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChoiceAsBro View Post
    I'd bet even smaller on the flop, I don't expect him to fold anything really and it sets you up better for bet, bet, shove.

    On this turn I'd bet always, he knows its a great barrel card so should be really suspicious when you don't bet it so I doubt he's going to turn JJ into a bluff or something if that's what you're hoping for.

    Just bet the turn 1/2 pot and shove the river, you're making it too hard.
    When posting this thread I thought of the same thing, but then again - do I really have any bluff range here which needs any scarecards? Yes my 3b range in this particular spot should be pretty wide, but all of it is towards value so not too wide. The caller is a fish, that's the target, I can't just squeeze with any two broadways.
    I assume he knows that my range is weighted towards value so A hits it pretty hard and even if it didn't my range is remains strong enough so that I don't need to turn my hand into a bluff.
    Also I'm not hoping he'll turn his SDV into a bluff, all i want is another street of value and I doubt that he will continue on such turn with TT/JJ/QQ
    Last thing if we're not expecting him to fold anything OTF, then why bet in the 1st place? His range is not air, his calling range is also strong. To not confuse anyone why I'm opposing myself or w/e, briefly my question is - is expecting him to fold ocasionally TT/JJ on this board when I make a bet of a decent sizing (lets say 18-20$) naive?
    tobe4funas is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-04-2012, 09:15 PM   #5
    enthusiast
     
    Join Date: Aug 2010
    Posts: 68
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    bet $12
    Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-04-2012, 10:04 PM   #6
    Pooh-Bah
     
    isunkurbttlship's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Mar 2010
    Location: ch/raising the river w a flush draw
    Posts: 3,535
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    the word is standard.
    isunkurbttlship is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-04-2012, 10:42 PM   #7
    old hand
     
    Mayox's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2010
    Location: I'm a snail
    Posts: 1,605
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by isunkurbttlship View Post
    the word is standard.
    this should be stickied
    Mayox is online now   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-05-2012, 12:13 AM   #8
    adept
     
    SmbSmbSmb's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2010
    Posts: 714
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    i'm starting to prefer standart.

    your logic is really strange though. you put him on exclusively pairs, yet still think he can have "stuff you chop with" and also that c/r is a good strategy vs this range.
    SmbSmbSmb is online now   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-05-2012, 03:55 AM   #9
    banned
     
    MaliceUW's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2007
    Location: posting vertical graphs
    Posts: 4,477
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    maybe the easiest turn bet

    ever
    MaliceUW is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-05-2012, 06:13 AM   #10
    Pooh-Bah
     
    UCDLaCrosse's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Feb 2008
    Location: Winning
    Posts: 3,787
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    Bet small on flop. Vbet turn jam river. Its Not that hard really. You said bet was small? 16 into 25 is massive. Bet half pot
    UCDLaCrosse is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-05-2012, 06:36 AM   #11
    Carpal \'Tunnel
     
    NJD77's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2007
    Location: New Round New Chances Everyone
    Posts: 6,710
    Is flop really a Cbet here? I can't see it really accomplishes much against a really snug range of like TT+/AQ+.

    I don't think it's terrible but I don't think it's +ev in general. Now that you did though, you gotta bet the turn and shove the river.
    NJD77 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-05-2012, 07:17 AM   #12
    old hand
     
    tobe4funas's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2011
    Location: in a seriously confused mind
    Posts: 1,713
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SmbSmbSmb View Post
    i'm starting to prefer standart.

    your logic is really strange though. you put him on exclusively pairs, yet still think he can have "stuff you chop with" and also that c/r is a good strategy vs this range.
    OTF his range isn't only pairs, i'm saying his range is only pairs when he calls the flop barrel
    anyways since i dont receive anything more from comments than bet bet shove - results here
    Spoiler:
    tobe4funas is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-05-2012, 03:19 PM   #13
    adept
     
    Join Date: Mar 2011
    Location: Heywood Jablomey?
    Posts: 825
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NJD77 View Post
    Is flop really a Cbet here? I can't see it really accomplishes much against a really snug range of like TT+/AQ+.

    I don't think it's terrible but I don't think it's +ev in general. Now that you did though, you gotta bet the turn and shove the river.
    Against bad non thinking players I would totally agree with you, because playing face up does not hurt your EV, but against semi decent regs that can hand read we must cbet this flop. Once we check our range instantly becomes more heavily weighted with air hands like A/K high. I am pretty sure that we bet our premiums something like 80% of the time on this flop for that very same reason you mentioned...they probably are not folding very much. Against a reg balance should be considered imo and cbetting 3 streets gets max FE against villains range even with a crappy board run off...obv this turn is good for a smallish vbet for just a tad over 1/2 pot like maybe $36 or so. And I believe that I read somewhere that OP has only value hands in this spot...maybe adding some air hands like Kxs, Axs, and Qxs(x=rags that can't really call profitably preflop) might help you get more value from these squeeze spots. I am not advocating raising with these hands every time but if the conditions are right such as villain folds to 3bets a high % or maybe a loose opener gets called by a loose caller then yea...bump it up! just my thoughts don't put too much confidence behind my words tho...
    Big Jon 21 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-05-2012, 06:01 PM   #14
    old hand
     
    tobe4funas's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2011
    Location: in a seriously confused mind
    Posts: 1,713
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Big Jon 21 View Post
    Against bad non thinking players I would totally agree with you, because playing face up does not hurt your EV, but against semi decent regs that can hand read we must cbet this flop. Once we check our range instantly becomes more heavily weighted with air hands like A/K high. I am pretty sure that we bet our premiums something like 80% of the time on this flop for that very same reason you mentioned...they probably are not folding very much. Against a reg balance should be considered imo and cbetting 3 streets gets max FE against villains range even with a crappy board run off...obv this turn is good for a smallish vbet for just a tad over 1/2 pot like maybe $36 or so. And I believe that I read somewhere that OP has only value hands in this spot...maybe adding some air hands like Kxs, Axs, and Qxs(x=rags that can't really call profitably preflop) might help you get more value from these squeeze spots. I am not advocating raising with these hands every time but if the conditions are right such as villain folds to 3bets a high % or maybe a loose opener gets called by a loose caller then yea...bump it up! just my thoughts don't put too much confidence behind my words tho...
    my whole point for 3beting is to get more money pre into the pot from the fish, not from this villain. I always thought in spots like these it's obvious that 3betors range is weighted towards value because of the fish so all Ax Kx (rags or w/e called) are going to end up -EV for squeezing, no?
    Also against this tight guy I dont really need to be balancing as I won't play him nearly as often to require any balance at all.
    tobe4funas is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 02-05-2012, 07:36 PM   #15
    veteran
     
    RainbowBright's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,344
    Re: 100NL standart spot, turn decision?

    If you're going to bet bigger on the flop make sure that you make it big enough so you can shove turn. The whole point is to avoid awkward stack sizes on all streets.
    RainbowBright is offline   Reply With Quote

    Reply
          

    Thread Tools
    Display Modes

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:13 AM.


    Powered by vBulletin®
    Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
    Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive