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Old 02-23-2012, 01:52 PM   #1
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Question 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

Merge - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $217.54
UTG+1: $86.33
MP: $121.36
MP+1: $207.81
LP: $119.69
CO: $64.90
BTN: $136.31
Hero (SB): $100.00
BB: $125.67

Hero posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to $3.00, fold, CO calls $3.00, fold, Hero raises to $11.00, fold, MP+1 raises to $23.00, CO raises to $64.90 and is all-in, ?

MP+1 is 19/15 reg who can be bluffing here sometimes, CO is 18/5 fish.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:03 PM   #2
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

CO stats for how many hands?

I can let this go
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:16 PM   #3
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

obv depends alot on hou u playing too.
more pre plz, esp oop.
as played i believe this is a fold, unless MP+1 is spewy reg. he should not expect u to be light there, esp with ur sizing, esp oop and esp with the fish in the hand.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:39 PM   #4
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

5k hands for CO.
What's your size then, 12?
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:51 PM   #5
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

if i were an 18/5 fish and there were a raise, reraise, and rereraise in front of me, i would only rerereraise with aces or kings
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:54 PM   #6
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

so are we in agreement fish has like a tricky KK+ here like 90% of the time?
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:10 PM   #7
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

pretty sure its a fold
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:16 PM   #8
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffe23 View Post
so are we in agreement fish has like a tricky KK+ here like 90% of the time?
prob like 75, but if the reg has aa/kk 50 percent of the time the fish doesnt, then we're looking at 88 percent of the time we're dicked.
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:35 PM   #9
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

what exactly is tricky about an 18/5 backraise shoving?
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:56 PM   #10
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

By tricky i mean the fact he didn't 3bet aa/kk. Anyway thanks guys, neither villain had what I expected after I folded so i thought I'd throw it out there.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:10 AM   #11
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinivici9586 View Post
prob like 75, but if the reg has aa/kk 50 percent of the time the fish doesnt, then we're looking at 88 percent of the time we're dicked.
Your maths is wrong. We are dicked 125% of the time.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:23 AM   #12
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

fish probs knows this and is bluffing with Axhh
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:48 AM   #13
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

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fish probs knows this and is bluffing with Axhh
can't believe no one has said this already
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Old 02-25-2012, 07:02 AM   #14
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

Pretty shocked so many people want to fold. Most regs flat AA/KK here to keep the fish in and the fish can have plenty more than AA with a 60bb stack. I think this is a pretty easy shove.
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:57 PM   #15
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

So not even close, just an easy shove?
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:39 PM   #16
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranil View Post
obv depends alot on hou u playing too.
more pre plz, esp oop.
as played i believe this is a fold, unless MP+1 is spewy reg. he should not expect u to be light there, esp with ur sizing, esp oop and esp with the fish in the hand.
am actually Hero should be pretty wide but all for value so villain doesn't have to be spewy to 4b here with a range of AK/QQ+ and against this range+fish in pot this is a call I think.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:39 PM   #17
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by RosaParks View Post
Pretty shocked so many people want to fold. Most regs flat AA/KK here to keep the fish in and the fish can have plenty more than AA with a 60bb stack. I think this is a pretty easy shove.
What about MP+1's 4bet? I think that should be enough to make us think about a fold here. We still have the 4bettor behind to worry about. I don't think the fact that both villains showed up with some spazz means that the fold is bad. Did MP+1 have a high 4bet % or anything?
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:13 PM   #18
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

Seems to me 4bet could be pretty weak range because it kinda looks like a squeeze to isolate with fish. I wouldn't be surprised if MP+1 turns over 77-JJ or even AQo/AJo here. Shove behind fish MP+1 folds and hopefully you run over A9o. Fish might even have a small pair here and be flipping in his mind?
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:48 PM   #19
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Re: 100NL: short fish backraise shoves over 4bet

MP: RFI 18, 4b 12
LP: RFI 45, 4b 9
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