2 hands... trying to bluff catch against absolute maniac whales (V1 and V2) willing to donate... who keep betting/raising/3betting ATC every hand

Hand 1: $400 eff

Hero opens $8 w/ QJs in HJ, V1 in CO calls, SB calls, V2 in BB 3bets to $24, Hero calls, V1 calls, SB calls

FLOP ($96): J54
SB checks, V2 checks, Hero checks, V1 checks

TURN ($96): 9
SB checks, V2 checks, Hero bets $48, V1 calls, SB folds, V2 folds

RIVER ($192): 5
Hero checks, V1 shoves $325, Hero calls and V1 shows 53

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Hand 2: $160 eff, this time vs the BB whale (V2) in previous hand who is raising $10 every hand with ATC and barrels a lot

V opens to $10 in HJ, Hero in CO 3bets AQ to $30, folds to V who calls

FLOP ($60): K93
V bets $10, Hero calls << because he never folds

TURN ($80): 6
V bets $20, Hero calls

RIVER ($120): 5
V shoves $100, Hero calls and V shows 87 for runner runner straight

Hand 1: With the only sane player in the hand having checked twice I think we can bet larger than half pot on the turn for value against the 2 maniacs with no fold button so I would've gone maybe $75-80. On the river you're genuinely unlucky as a lot of his range here is KQ, QT, 8T,67, heart draws without trip 5s and you just got to accept sometimes he does has the 5.

Hand 2: I'd either flat pre or make it bigger with intention to shove every flop. If we made it $50 then can just shove a pot size bet on any flop. As it has having $130 on a $60 pot makes it a bit awkward when we miss. As played fold river - AQ is barely even a call vs ATC on that runout and there has to be some chance hes giving up some bluffs.

h1 yeah i guess
h2 is this 2/5? not many bbs but idk if u can call river

With 3 players behind, are you really 3betting bigger? What if any of them come over the top?

You can fold you know.

depends on reads and stack sizes, obviously.

yes, you should 3-bet bigger vs players who "never fold" when you have very good value hands vs their range(s).

Hand 1) Why would youcall that shove? You have top pair with an okay kicker. What do you possibly beat here except a busted flush draw, which is a TINY % of his range?

Hand 2) Raise the flop, mr. calling station

Well for starters, it looks like their sizing is a tell. Just because someone's playing a lot of hands does not mean they're always bluffing. In this case, it looks like big bet=big hand.

Are they all actually maniacs? If I knew that I could get you to consistently pay off a 150bb 2x pot river shove with TPMK, I'd certainly play looser.

IMO AQo isnt strong enough to continue after the turn, let alone the flop for hand 2. I want to attack villain with a strong hand

For hand 1 I think we should bet the flop. Unlucky in the end.

Hand 1) Bet flop. River is an easy fold. We don't beat much

Hand 2) Raise flop and continue on club turns. I doubt we ever get called when we raise to $50 on the flop based on his bet size. We obv fold if we are raised otf.

Though you got unlucky the hands are played badly.
You say that the whales bet and raise every hand, yet in hand one they only bet the river.

There are more ways to play either hand that are fine.

First hand, river is better as bet-fold instead of a check call. As played it's a check fold vs that sizing.

Second hand, you don't seem to notice an obvious sizing tell. The fish are betting tiny with crap and big with what they think is the nuts.

Someone above suggesting to fold AQ on the flop or on the turn vs 1/6 pot and 1/4 pot while in position vs a fish has to be joking.
To be fair, I found the joke funny.

I find bluff catching is something you don't set out do but something that just arises due to the play and board run out. You decide to float someone who cbets too often, catch a draw on the turn and miss the river but realize villains line makes no sense with a hand they are betting for value. Its easier to spot on paired boards and boards with disparate draws where multiple bets occur that don't tell a story that makes sense.

A board like
23J97
will have a bunch of missed draws. A bet, check, bet line or check, bet, bet line will have more missed draws that aggro players can't help stabbing for the pot with.

Or if someone always bets flush draws on the flop, checks the flop, bets the turn and on the river bets when a possible flush comes in you know they are stabbing.

It helps to call with hands that have a blocker to the hand they are representing or if you put villain on a missed flush draw make sure your not holding the same suit to maximize the chance you're right.

Hand 1 could have been a bluff catch but villain didn't bet the flop so I see less flush or straight draws in his range - at least the strongest aren't there. His call on the turn tells you he has something. Jamming the river tells you that something wasn't a 9. What else could he really have? Admittedly it looks bluffy but what bluffs can he have.

Hand 2. Be way more aggressive!
You have AK, KK, KQ AQ in your range and this fish just donked into you on a K high board when you 3 bet him. Punish him! He has so many Qx, Jx, F.all.x that you can print money barrelling the flop and turn and even consider the river jam if the board run out is dry enough. OK, if he calls down fine, next time you'll have the top pair top kicker and he'll stack off to you or he'll have jack high on the river with no escape.

Hand 1: wp
Hand 2: fold the turn


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