Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Golf Discuss the game of golf

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-01-2017, 08:22 AM   #1
BadBoyBenny
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BadBoyBenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 7,740
USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

http://www.usga.org/rules-hub/rules-...e-changes.html

WOW - pretty huge changes, pretty much all positive in my opinion except maybe being able to drop the ball from right above the ground, too much angle shooting possible in drops if I understand the change correctly. I never saw an issue with dropping from shoulder height. Should benefit fairness and pace of play

Quote:
Highlights of the proposed Rule changes include:

Elimination or reduction of “ball moved” penalties: There will be no penalty for accidentally moving a ball on the putting green or in searching for a ball; and a player is not responsible for causing a ball to move unless it is “virtually certain” that he or she did so.

Relaxed putting green rules: There will be no penalty if a ball played from the putting green hits an unattended flagstick in the hole; players may putt without having the flagstick attended or removed. Players may repair spike marks and other damage made by shoes, animal damage and other damage on the putting green and there is no penalty for merely touching the line of putt.

Relaxed rules for “penalty areas” (currently called “water hazards”): Red and yellow-marked penalty areas may cover areas of desert, jungle, lava rock, etc., in addition to areas of water; expanded use of red penalty areas where lateral relief is allowed; and there will be no penalty for moving loose impediments or touching the ground or water in a penalty area.

Relaxed bunker rules: There will be no penalty for moving loose impediments in a bunker or for generally touching the sand with a hand or club. A limited set of restrictions (such as not grounding the club right next to the ball) is kept to preserve the challenge of playing from the sand; however, an extra relief option is added for an unplayable ball in a bunker, allowing the ball to be played from outside the bunker with a two-stroke penalty.

Relying on player integrity: A player’s “reasonable judgment” when estimating or measuring a spot, point, line, area or distance will be upheld, even if video evidence later shows it to be wrong; and elimination of announcement procedures when lifting a ball to identify it or to see if it is damaged.

Pace-of-play support: Reduced time for searching for a lost ball (from five minutes to three); affirmative encouragement of “ready golf” in stroke play; recommending that players take no more than 40 seconds to play a stroke and other changes intended to help with pace of play.

Simplified way of taking relief: A new procedure for taking relief by dropping a ball in and playing it from a specific relief area; relaxed procedures for dropping a ball, allowing the ball to be dropped from just above the ground or any growing thing or other object on the ground.
BadBoyBenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 12:26 PM   #2
scottc25
veteran
 
scottc25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: TPA
Posts: 2,182
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

I see two reasons why the ball drop change happened.

First is dropping a ball in a bunker. Obviously if you drop it at shoulder height it's going to bury or you will have a fried egg. How often do you have to drop in a bunker though. I honestly can't think of a single time I have had to do this.

Secondly I think this helps pace of play. Every professional event you watch they drop it on the edge of the 2 club (or 1 depending on the situation) length and it rolls outside of it. Repeat the process a second time and then you place it where it struck the ground. Now you can essentially place it the first time.
scottc25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 01:42 PM   #3
DWetzel
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DWetzel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bathing my mogwai
Posts: 39,273
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

"If that's the case why not just go all the way and let people place instead of drop" is the first thing that comes to mind; I'm guessing inertia is the answer.

Everything else looks spectacularly sensible.
DWetzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 03:46 PM   #4
campfirewest
Pooh-Bah
 
campfirewest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,362
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

I don't quite understand the dropping one inch above the ground either, but everything looks good to me.

The only thing I wish they would have added was making OB play like a lateral hazard instead of stroke and distance.
campfirewest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 04:19 PM   #5
stinkypete
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
stinkypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 13,652
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest View Post
The only thing I wish they would have added was making OB play like a lateral hazard instead of stroke and distance.
Please no.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
stinkypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 04:41 PM   #6
CalledDownLight
Toonces the Posting Bot
 
CalledDownLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DUKE FOOTBALL<DUKE BASKETBALL
Posts: 85,571
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest View Post
I don't quite understand the dropping one inch above the ground either, but everything looks good to me.

The only thing I wish they would have added was making OB play like a lateral hazard instead of stroke and distance.
this would probably decrease my handicap by about 3-4 points immediately.
CalledDownLight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 07:53 PM   #7
campfirewest
Pooh-Bah
 
campfirewest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,362
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkypete View Post
Please no.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Why not?
campfirewest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 08:35 PM   #8
stinkypete
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
stinkypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 13,652
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Because it's dumb. Anything can be marked as a water hazard. That's up to the course designer and/or course management. Taking away the option of having OB would be lame.
stinkypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 09:35 PM   #9
scottc25
veteran
 
scottc25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: TPA
Posts: 2,182
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest View Post
I don't quite understand the dropping one inch above the ground either, but everything looks good to me.

The only thing I wish they would have added was making OB play like a lateral hazard instead of stroke and distance.
Although not in this set they are taking comments regarding any stroke and distance rules and I am guessing something will come out regarding it eventually.

Guessing there is a separate rule saying drop within 80" of where it last crossed and you can't play it out of there like other penalty areas. Just makes way too much sense to do this.
scottc25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 11:30 PM   #10
sirluckbox
adept
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 704
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

keeping the pin in while putting seems bad to me, anyone else?
sirluckbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 11:44 PM   #11
stinkypete
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
stinkypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 13,652
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirluckbox View Post
keeping the pin in while putting seems bad to me, anyone else?
there's definitely situations where you want it in. like long fast downhill putts.
stinkypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 04:19 AM   #12
ntanygd760
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ntanygd760's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,394
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottc25 View Post
I see two reasons why the ball drop change happened.

First is dropping a ball in a bunker. Obviously if you drop it at shoulder height it's going to bury or you will have a fried egg. How often do you have to drop in a bunker though. I honestly can't think of a single time I have had to do this.

Secondly I think this helps pace of play. Every professional event you watch they drop it on the edge of the 2 club (or 1 depending on the situation) length and it rolls outside of it. Repeat the process a second time and then you place it where it struck the ground. Now you can essentially place it the first time.
Don't forget now if you play in a tournament you have a chance of stopping your ball from rolling it back into the hazard if you are dropping it on a bank of a lake and you don't have a caddie to stop it.
ntanygd760 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 04:24 AM   #13
ntanygd760
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ntanygd760's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,394
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest View Post
I don't quite understand the dropping one inch above the ground either, but everything looks good to me.

The only thing I wish they would have added was making OB play like a lateral hazard instead of stroke and distance.
They gave the option of making anything a lateral hazard so plenty good enough and they can let the course decide. This will let them leave ob in place for situations like houses, because you know people will be playing out of backyards if it is marked red.
ntanygd760 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 04:45 AM   #14
stinkypete
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
stinkypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 13,652
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntanygd760 View Post
They gave the option of making anything a lateral hazard so plenty good enough and they can let the course decide. This will let them leave ob in place for situations like houses, because you know people will be playing out of backyards if it is marked red.
You could still disallow playing an OB ball where it lies but allow relief by the same rules as a hazard.

I don't like the idea, maybe just out of principle, but I'll concede it might make things better since tons of people cheat anyway and won't take the stroke and distance.
stinkypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 11:12 AM   #15
campfirewest
Pooh-Bah
 
campfirewest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,362
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Ah, I missed the part about them making anything a hazard: https://www.usga.org/rules-hub/rules...lty-areas.html

They could mark the stakes red with green tips like for ESA (environmentally sensitive area), which means you can't play the ball from within the hazard. That would stop people from playing out of yards.
campfirewest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 05:38 PM   #16
revots33
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
revots33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 8,705
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

The bunker rule is interesting, guess it might help beginners who can't get out of the sand.

I like leaving the stick in, for recreational players with long putts it can make sense in terms of pace of play. Guy putting can walk up, mark his ball, and remove the pin. No need for another player to tend while he could be getting a read on his upcoming putt.
revots33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 05:47 PM   #17
campfirewest
Pooh-Bah
 
campfirewest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,362
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

I'm not a fan of the bunker rule, that is going to get abused.

The flagstick rule should help pace of play a lot.
campfirewest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 06:57 PM   #18
Tom Ames
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Trapped in an alley in Abilene, with all but four shells spent
Posts: 16,743
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkypete View Post
there's definitely situations where you want it in. like long fast downhill putts.
Well, of course you would. But does this mean that you would be able to leave it in on slick downhill four-footers as well?
Tom Ames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 07:01 PM   #19
stinkypete
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
stinkypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 13,652
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ames View Post
Well, of course you would. But does this mean that you would be able to leave it in on slick downhill four-footers as well?
yeah, but doubt you'd ever want to
stinkypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 12:58 PM   #20
Suit
veteran
 
Suit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,354
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ames View Post
Well, of course you would. But does this mean that you would be able to leave it in on slick downhill four-footers as well?
You can leave it in for any putt.
Suit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 03:04 PM   #21
dinopoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
dinopoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Must...bet...more!
Posts: 7,288
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirluckbox View Post
keeping the pin in while putting seems bad to me, anyone else?
Speeds up play. You can now putt without needing to have someone tend the pin, which is especially useful if your group is all a fair distance away.

Odds are you won't make the putts anyways, but if you do -- no penalty.

Makes a lot of sense.
dinopoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 03:45 PM   #22
golfnutt
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,302
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Well, these are some big changes and obviously precipitated by the decline of golf.

This alone won't dent it, but at the least the "rules makers" for the first time are making significant changes which will set the course for even more future changes. Golf needs to get down to 3 hours. I just don't know many people who can get away for 5 to 7 hours when you include driving, warming up, wrapping up, and driving home after.

There are so many people, myself included, who have to make a mad dash to leave or show up right at tee-time. And then it seems impossible to get away from phone calls, texts or emails from business and family. Perhaps other people can get away from their phones.

The not playing out of a bunker is interesting. It might be worth it at times, even if you are a good player, if there is water behind the green to not risk it.
golfnutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 06:41 PM   #23
stinkypete
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
stinkypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 13,652
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Golf is never getting down to 3 hours without changing the number of holes. I'm perfectly happy when my rounds are 3:30-4:00 in a three or foursome. (Though in my case that means a round trip of about 3:40-4:10 from leaving my place to getting back home.)

Doing things to get a full round of golf down to 3 hours would require huge fundamental changes that would pretty much ruin the game. The only way to do it would be to make golf ~13 holes. And obviously that's not happening.
stinkypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 06:47 PM   #24
ntanygd760
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ntanygd760's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,394
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

3 hours will never happened but it would be nice to get a typical 4 some on a weekend to 3.5 hours.

Never thought about the drop out of the bunker instead of playing the shot but a fried egg with a green going away and water behind the 2 stroke penalty might be the safe option.
ntanygd760 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 07:26 PM   #25
stinkypete
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
stinkypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 13,652
Re: USGA and R&A Rule Changes 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntanygd760 View Post
Never thought about the drop out of the bunker instead of playing the shot but a fried egg with a green going away and water behind the 2 stroke penalty might be the safe option.
if you can safely hit in any direction from the bunker it will ~always be a better option than a two stroke penalty. taking a 2 stroke penalty really only makes sense if you expect to take at least 2 strokes to get out of the bunker.

a fried egg with the green sloping away with the water behind could be the exception, but only if there's no safe bailout zone to target from the bunker.
stinkypete is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online