Lol at thinking be able to afford Applebees instead of McDonalds while wasting your life beating it around the Texas minitours makes you the authority on all things golf. Self appeal to authority ftl.

Why you gotta be mean for, yo?

Seriously, just grasping at straws and hoping he's not really injured. But suppose ship- is right. Zero chance

Gonna be frantically refreshing every golf news website this week until we get word about the achilles. Damn this sucks

Of course not. Though I have heard changing your shoes can cure achilles problems

I just don't understand why when he talks to the tour official after opening his window he cant just say I am having achilles problmes and not sure what they are yet?

why? Golf isnt important again till the masters. Its bball time.

If its torn hes looking at a year.

Actually a pretty good thought here...not only was his swing with Harmon the best, it would have certainly required less maintenance over the years.

I had no idea that you would still disagree.

Did you look past the first picture on Google? I'll answer that, no. You picked the first picture you came across...not to mention you picked a really old picture. How about this picture, does the lower match the upper or does it look like he has added a ton of mass to the upper body and not the lower body? These are actually pretty good pictures to argue against his use of PEDs. If here were on PEDs his lower body would have probably outpaced the growth of his upper body due to the composition of the lower body. Instead his naturally thin legs have trouble putting on size, while his upper body didn't.



Again, I agree that he has worked as hard, if not harder on his legs. He is certainly not a bro in the gym only doing curls. But (and I have no idea on this) I would think that more mass would help soften some of the stress his legs endure. You could fit both of Tiger's legs in one leg of Woodlands pants. The argument that long drive champions have skinny legs (Sladowski) is pointless because they don't put their body under that stress for decades. Strength is important for distance, but speed doesn't come from mass. It comes from natural ability combined with strength....oh god, now I opened the "natural ability" can of worms.

A "reasonable definition of thin" doesn't really apply to the person on Tour who has generated the most clubhead speed per pound of anyone who has ever played professionally. Again, it is called repetitive stress.

Also...In before yeah, that picture is about what I would expect.

Also, also...hey Spenda, I inserted and image on my own!!!!!!

Why does Tiger fly in a doctor from Canada linked to HGH and PED's? Later this doctor is charged and convicted of importing those drugs into the USA

Why?

Simple. Competitive advantage. PRP (Which woods is on record saying he took, but did not take HGH) (same with Carlos Beltran, A-Rod, Kobe, Reyes) can help speed up the recovery of bone/soft tissue growth...

Makes sense, a guy coming off of knee surgeries would look to help the healing process, especially one as competitive and driven as Tiger woods...

First, there's no way it was a "crybaby moment." Why play almost 90% of a tournament and walk away?

But I do think he's thinking of the Masters, and he is especially thinking that playing hurt is a huge part of what has set him back in the first place.

I think he is probably being just a bit over-cautious, but that is understandable, given the conventional wisdom that he did all of this to himself in the first place.

What differences in the Harmon swing do you think were better and why?

I am not defending or saying he did or didn’t use PEDs, just giving my opinion here.

As stated I was diagnosed with 3 stress fractures in my left foot after First Stage last year. As a self employed person my health insurance sucks. The doctor I went to wanted to immediately begin blood spinning therapy to speed the recovery process along as it is an amazing tool. It also is quite expensive so I decided that since I don’t play golf in the winter anyway that I would just give the injury a few months on its own and see what happens. However, Tiger was a billion dollar industry at his height so the idea that he would fly in the leading expert in the world to treat him is not that big of a deal to me. Yes it is odd and unfortunate that he also happens to be a doctor who deals with Roids, but that does not mean that is what Tiger used him for (again, I am not speculating either way). If the doctor specialized in dermatology and Tiger flew him in that would be sketchy as hell, but he is the leading expert in the field Tiger says he brought him in for. Tiger pays $10k, $20k for a days work to a guy but that gets Tiger back on the course even 1 week sooner, well, that sounds like an investment that is worth a look.

Honestly as a person who has used testosterone I truly believe that IF he used PEDs it would help him as much mentally as physically. In looking at the pictures above the first one that lok2 posted is from 2005 and mine is from 2011. People have made the point before that Tiger’s evolution over 7-10 years looks like a man in his 20’s that really begins working out and eating right. There is never a time that he blew up Bonds or Canseco style over an offseason. He added mass consistently over almost a decade. Nothing out of line there at all IMO, he might have used them to aid with recovery or mental agility…or could not have.

Another guy whose knees should be falling apart: Bubba Watson

Dude is a ****ing stick (tall but a stick) and his feet do all sort of violent wacked-up stuff during his swing.

I do think Tiger's injury problem has more to do with so much repetition plus the fact that Tiger swings hard, and for a number of years probably used his left knee more in his swing than anyone ever has. I still fail to see how his legs are skinny, they look perfectly normal on his frame to me. He's no KJ Choi but he's not out there with chicken legs either.

Bubba's feet aren't planted at impact, I'm sure this alleviates a lot of the stress and torque put on his knees during the swing.

The slo-mo closeups they show of his feet at impact on the tee are LOL worthy.

You do make a good point

Yeah moving feet is actually a good thing for your knees. Tiger's feet stay planted which results in a ton of stress / torque -- especially when he used to snap his left leg at impact.

I'm not sure what side I stand on the PED talk. I would have said NFW when I thought Tiger was a totally wholesome father who seemed to be as straight-laced as they come (foolish me). I'm not comparing his infidelities to someone who would cheat competitively, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was revealed one day that he has used steroids or PEDs. I honestly don't know enough about the side-effects / lasting impacts of being a user to really formulate a strong opinion either.

That said, I think that his WD was precautionary as well. His stubborness with injuries in the past (see running at British Open on a bad leg) have built into major injuries (post 08 US Open) and really side-tracked his hunt for Jack's record. Seems like this is the way to do it, to ensure that he's healthy for Augusta, which is really all that matters for him.

I just thought his swing with Harmon looked the simplest, much like Adam Scott’s does now. I have never looked to break down the idiosyncrasies of that swing vs. Haney vs. Foley, but with Harmon he sure did play well. My post really didn’t intend to speak to which was better, more to agree with the notion that he would have been able to spend less time on the range than he has.

Best point of the thread. I frame by framed it yesterday LOL'ing and showing the wife.

One other thought...it really is amazing how rich these guys are, Tiger obviously being the leader. I am in no way saying he should have done this, but he could have. He could very easily have just bunted the ball around the last few holes with no strain on his knee and picked up $50k or so. $50k for a simple 6 holes finish or head out…nah, I’m outta here!

TW's response would be that the Harmon swing was the major contributor to his knee trouble. That the abrupt straightening of the lead knee was unsustainable.

I think it's also arguable that the Harmon swing made him more of a one trick pony, and unable to hit the variety of shots he wanted to hit.

But in theory agree with the range time idea.

why did tiger switch coaches/swings in the first place? was it due to injury or due to a slump?

It's the straightening of the knee combined with keeping it planted in place that is bad. Watch any long drive guys, olympic throwers, baseball sluggers, etc. They all generate much more force along the lead leg than tiger ever has, but they let the leg come off the ground and rotate through, bubba-style. Otherwise it'd be tendon snapping time every day

Another thing that I am sure NXT or golfdoc could explain better than me, but it REALLY pisses me off when the announcers say Tiger “snaps his leg back at impact.” There is nothing wrong with UCBanana or YourBoss saying Tiger snaps his leg back as they are regurgitating what they hear and see, and I say that with nothing but respect as UCbanana and YourBoss don’t study the game for a living (and yes I love UC and YB and they love golf, but they aren’t instructors). Tiger is NOT snapping his leg backwards, he is jumping up off the ground and thus using the ground for leverage to create more speed, just like Bubba does, only Tiger is still staying on the ground which is why Bubba hits it farther.

I feel like golf commentators have people on driving ranges all over the world who are actively trying to snap the leg backwards when what is really happening is you are jumping up and turning the lower body which makes it LOOK like you are snapping the leg backwards when it is in fact simply straightening as you create side bend in your upper body (don’t try this at home, this falls under the “natural ability” category that people think doesn’t exist). Think and feel the difference between snapping a leg backwards or jumping up and turning your hips. The look of the knee is the same at impact, but one results in surgery and the other results in power. Yes when you do it to the extreme of Tiger or Bubba is looks bat**** crazy as Tiger looks like he is snapping his leg off and Bubba is literally off the ground at impact.

The always talked about “drop” in Tiger’s head from the top of the downswing is a problem yes, but that drop is also where he gets his power from. He loads it to the top and then drops only to create more room to jump at impact creating more leverage and speed. If you jumped without dropping your head or creating sufficient side bend from the down the line view you would whiff the ball as you have jumped up (LDO). To create speed you need as much leg and hips as you can muster so you must jump for power and therefore you must also drop your upper body to offset it and make solid contact. It is simple physics much like a figure skater bringing their arms and hands to their body to create speed when spinning. Where Tiger gets in trouble with his driver is because he still has the drop from the top and then due to injury or whatever doesn’t have the speed and strength to jump up and maintain the proper distance from the golf ball at impact with the same timing from shot to shot. I really can’t believe that Peter Kostis or somebody has never delved into that much. Either it is too much to get out in a reasonable timeframe on TV or they don’t understand it. Tiger saying it was the major contributor to his knee trouble shows that even he didn’t understand it AT THE TIME (I assume he does now). In all honesty, nobody really did until the use of high speed cameras and better technology came along and even now not very many people truly “get” what is going on to create power and efficiency in the golf swing. Think about it, if Tiger had a more active lower body like he did when he was a kid the current massive drop in the head would be offset at the same time by a rising lower body and you wouldn’t be able to see the drop in the head. So the problem is really not that his head is dropping, it is that his lower body isn't rising like it used to and offsetting it. I can only assume that thought blows about 99% of you away and there will be several who may or may not post it but think that is wrong, it's not. Had he not moved away from Harmon that slowing of his lower body with age would have probably more easily morphed into his mature swing rather than constantly changing directions.

In all honesty, I think I have made plenty of good contributions to the forum over the years, mostly with regards to stories, Q School sweats, and psychology. But I really do think this is my best post ever with regards to the swing. I doubt very many of you have ever heard of this. I may not have worded it very well, but if you guys really sit down and think about what I said here you might get a much deeper understanding of the golf swing.

Ground force reaction, Google that when you Google “Tiger Woods in Shorts”.

This was obviously posted while I was writing mine, and it is headed in the right direction, but still has massive flaws and just shows you how much the media has done viewers a disservice. The guys you mention are all at the extreme outer edges of power and performance. Tiger is just behind them and thus is at a crossroad where he either needs less ground force to lighten the load, or more to get it actually off the ground.

It is not straightening..well it is, but it is jumping, NOT SNAPPING.

I'm not sure why you are reading all this stuff into my post. His knee obviously straightens, and it is clearly from a jumping mechanism. Every athletic swing or throwing motion involves transferring "jumping" energy into moving the club or bat or implement. Anyone who tries "snapping" the knee rather than "jumping" off the ground would quickly find out which is better.

I was actually assuming you had a deeper knowledge (and it sounds like you do) from the fact you were even on the right path. I just don't think you realize how many people purely think he is straightening his leg and don't grasp that it is from jumping up, not from snapping the leg. Maybe I am wrong, but all people ever say is he snaps his leg backwards, and that just isn't what is happening at all.

Maybe I shouldn't have said massive flaws to your post specifically, but that is had a long way to go to describe what is going on.

I don't think u get Achilles playing golf

LOL at the haters accusing Tiger of being a roid monster. The guy's career follows a totally normal pattern for any athlete not using roids. Jim Rome today was the nut low of this crowd. What?! 36 years old and starting to have joint and ligament problems? OMG must be roids!