Tiger "GOAT" Woods Thread (aka Golf Forum Hamsterdam)

[Everlastrr]

Bo has created a new disorder all by himself. Accordingly it should be named after him.

It shall known as BBSCS - Bo's Bitter Scolded Child Syndrome

It's really not an easy thing to do. You usually need a war or a mother in need of bashing her child to create such reactions.

First meetings will be hosted by AA-rods cousin.

[odb]

Originally Posted by Your Boss

Still no cite I see. Color me shocked.

Also, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is the distance advantage TW had with his irons when he first came on tour. He hit his long irons longer and higher than anyone else. That's not cite able obviously, but this argument should appeal to Leo and roger and their ilk.

are people talking about that? For most of his career, Tiger has been elite with every club except the driver. JN was elite with the driver and long irons, closer to avg with his shorter clubs and a good putter.

Have young Jack tee off on par 4s and 5s, and let Tiger play in from there and you prob get 25+ majors.

[odb]

fwiw when saying "show me the numbers" with regards to driving, it's pretty dumb. driving distance was recorded on 2 holes for a long time, and the player may not have hit driver, when it was even recorded at all.


the new radar stats are awesome though.

I don't know if the clubhead speed stat is only recorded on driver shots, but it looks that way. Tiger's avg is 121mph with his slowest 118 and his fastest 125, and there's no way he's swinging 118 with a 3wood.

[jk3a]

Originally Posted by jk3a

i'll do it later if no one has time now, but the 1968 driving distance list should be compared to the 1980 one player for player to see if any conclusions can be drawn about either list

I tried to find the 1968 IBM stats in full/list form but couldn't. Anyone have a link?

[NxtWrldChamp]

searched for it as well, full data doesn't exist i dont think

[loK2thabrain]

Originally Posted by odb

driving distance was recorded on 2 holes for a long time, and the player may not have hit driver, when it was even recorded at all.

It's still done this way.

[Purewin]

The driving distance stat is a joke...it IS recorded on two holes and a player uses a 3 wood or a 3 iron o well too bad for them...not to mention wind conditions vary from morning to afternoon

The entire discussion about who hit it longer off the tee is for people missing the big picture. Tiger and JN both can murder the ball if they want to and no course they played would ever be too long for one and a pitch and putt for the other if they had the same clubs and balls. Tiger has always taken steps including altering his driver to be drastically shorter with a firmer shaft than compared to the average tour player. If his focus was just hitting it far he could be hitting it a lot further, but again that does not even matter they both do need to hit it further.

Tigers short game at pretty much every point in his career dominates JN's. Obviously JN's wasn't bad by any means just Tigers is one of the best of all time top 10 for sure and if your counting players who have won 5 majors or more he is the best with the exception of Seve Ballesteros

[lozen]

Well time to pipe in as a Tiger Disliker.

His year has to be ruled a success with three wins and were not done yet. Though in Tiger's standards it is a fail with no Majors.

My question to the Tiger Lovers. With his failure to close on the weekend how do you rate his year and chances next year of winning a major.

I have to also give him credit last few months for not being the ultimate prick to the press and in general. |I hope his comment about being to relaxed on Saturday doesnt change the latter

[KenoVictoryLap]

I am a huge Tiger fan, but i am more of a "see something awesome fan" and seeing him break Jack's record for major wins would be pretty awesome. I am also about the same age as Tiger so I have been watching him and aging with him; I think watching him fail has some added "you're old" punch to it that makes it suck a little extra. Young Tiger doesn't lose when he had leads. He just didn't. Current Tiger.... does. Watching him lose sucks the same way that watching [insert name of team sport from your local home town area] lose sucks.

[nih han]

i like watching tiger more for his skills on the golf course than his image off the course but i'll chime in as a tiger lover.

i actually gained more respect for tiger after the scandal than before. not for the infidelity part so much (banging hookers can go either way though) but for the fact that he seems more human with vices like normal people, who doesnt believe he needs to whore himself out at every media opportunity because he has a gift at hitting a small ball. <flame away!

anyways it is a successfull year if you believe he is still in the process and a lot more is to come. he still seems like he doesnt own the swing yet. especially in pressure situations. as he gets more familiar with the swing, he will get more feel for distance control with wedge shots, pitches and chips. in addition as he gets more confidence in his ability to repeat the swing on command, he can allocate more time on putting practice. anyone who has played a lot of golf prior to a major swing change, knows your touch around the greens is the first thing to go in your game, because of more time spent on new swing practice.

[NxtWrldChamp]

Originally Posted by lozen

Well time to pipe in as a Tiger Disliker.

His year has to be ruled a success with three wins and were not done yet. Though in Tiger's standards it is a fail with no Majors.

My question to the Tiger Lovers. With his failure to close on the weekend how do you rate his year and chances next year of winning a major.

I have to also give him credit last few months for not being the ultimate prick to the press and in general. |I hope his comment about being to relaxed on Saturday doesnt change the latter

Obviously a successful year. I predicted 3 wins with 1 major at the beginning of the year. Bah at no major, but not a huge deal. I think he will win at least 1 more time this year, either in the playoffs or around the world after the Tour Championship.

Seems to be getting more and more comfortable with his swing. It definitely falls off a bit when in contention at majors, but as he says all the time with swing changes there is a progression.

Range at home->Course at home->Range/Practice rounds on Tour->Tournaments on Tour->
In contention in Tournaments->Majors->Contending for majors

He appears to be on the last step. Just doesn't appear completely comfortable with his game when the majors are up for grabs, despite his game getting around major venues just fine the first couple days. I'm sure he feels it a little bit more, as evidenced by him closing the deal well in normal events but not at the majors. The first one will be the toughest for sure and you could definitely argue that he's probably "trying" to hard much like at the 2006 Masters when he knew it would be his dad's last chance to see him win a major.

There is definitely room for improvement in the short iron department even just by Tour standards, not to mention his standards as someone who used to be one of the best. Putting is coming along though still streaky. If as time goes on and there is little to no improvement in his short iron play, say middle of next year then I think we fans can start to get a bit worried.

Overall tons of positives to take from the year so far. He's well aware of what areas of his game are the weakest and I'm sure he will target them as he feels more and more comfortable with not having to devote all of his practice time to the full swing. Fully expect next year to be better than this year.

And, sure it is the biggest major drought of his career but the numbers lie a little bit there. Yes it has been 14 majors, 4 more than the 2 10 major droughts hes had previously but the circumstances are tad different.

1) Personal life meltdown(big blow to his chances at 2010 Masters)
2) Injuries(didn't play in 2011 USO or Open and basically unprepared for 2011 PGA)
3) After every other swing change Tiger didn't win until his 11th major with that swing.

At best this was his 7th major with the Foley swing and that is counting the 2010 PGA Champ where they started working together the week before. Remove that, now your down to 6 real starts, and you can basically take out the 2011 PGA and now you are looking at 5 "real" major starts under Foley.

Those 5 starts:
T4
T40
T21
T3
T11

Looks pretty good to me. Looks just slightly worse than his finishes leading up to 99 PGA

3
T10
T18
T3
T7

And better than the finishes leading up to the 2005 Masters

T39
T22
T17
T9
T24

HANG IT UP TIGER. YOURE DONE

NOT

NEXT YEAR GONNA BE FUN

[campfirewest]

I put his odds of winning a major next year at better than 50%.

Despite the weekend issues, his game has been improving like crazy this year. If he continues to improve and stays healthy there's no reason why he shouldn't be a major factor in the majors next year, even if he isn't as dominant as he has been in the past.

[odb]

it's too bad his sucky driving and wedge play is a product of his swing and not voodoo magic. He's got such massive shaft lean and negative AoA that every shot he hits is a stinger. It's great for hitting 250 yard 4 irons and 200 yard 8 irons but not much else.

[NxtWrldChamp]

sucky driving?

I just lol everytime someone says that nowadays. And lol at every shot is a stinger, Tiger probably has more control over trajectory than everyone out on tour right now aside from with his wedges. Not like he's handcuffed to only leaning the shaft and hitting it low.

As for his wedges, I'm sure he will fix it. He uses TrackMan a lot and him and Sean will be able to tackle the problem with his #s.

[odb]

If it's so easy, why wouldn't he have fixed his wedges before now? Just maybe the technique that leads to 200 yard 8 irons makes wedge distance control a lot tougher.


As for sucky driving, his fear of the driver speaks for itself. Yeah he's great at hitting irons in play off the tee, but with driver in hand he's pretty average.