Official 2012 PGA Tour (non-majors) discussion thread
02-15-2012
, 10:04 PM
Also nobody choked Tiger any of his majors, he was tied for the lead/winning going into the final round of all of them so far.
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the bottom line to this argument is that you cant compare golfers from different eras well enough. Golf is completely different now than it was 40 years ago. Courses are different, equipment is different, players are different. Its all mostly a relative comparison.
Heres a good stat. Tiger Wood's win percentage is currently 29.3% through 225 events. Next on that list is Ben Hogan at 26.1% through 245 events. Sam Snead is at 19.4% through 423 events. Then Jack Nicklaus at 16.22% through 450 events. And these stats run from when they first turned pro till their last victory, so it removes all events after their last victory in which they were less competitive.
As a little point of reference, Tiger would have to go winless in his next 170 events before slumping down to Jacks win percentage. With his schedule that would be 10 years without a win, not likely.
Another interesting note is that Jack Nicklaus did not win the Vardon trophy once in his career, Tiger on the other hand has won it 7 times. The Vardon trophy for those of you who dont know is handed out to the person with the lowest scoring average at the end of the season.
Heres a good stat. Tiger Wood's win percentage is currently 29.3% through 225 events. Next on that list is Ben Hogan at 26.1% through 245 events. Sam Snead is at 19.4% through 423 events. Then Jack Nicklaus at 16.22% through 450 events. And these stats run from when they first turned pro till their last victory, so it removes all events after their last victory in which they were less competitive.
As a little point of reference, Tiger would have to go winless in his next 170 events before slumping down to Jacks win percentage. With his schedule that would be 10 years without a win, not likely.
Another interesting note is that Jack Nicklaus did not win the Vardon trophy once in his career, Tiger on the other hand has won it 7 times. The Vardon trophy for those of you who dont know is handed out to the person with the lowest scoring average at the end of the season.
ALSO
Some CLASSICS from early 2009 from this thread http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/93...t-ever-441673/
Good discussion on Jack vs Tiger in there. Here are the highlights.
LOLOLOLOLOLOOL
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To those who are so sure that Tiger will be GOAT: you're probably right.
However, most other greats fell off the table at a certain point in their career. Palmer couldn't close out a major not long after Nicklaus showed up. Watson was the best player in golf in the late 70s and early 80s but got the yips and was never the same. Seve was absolutely brilliant for a stretch in the early-mid 80s but lost his touch and was never the same again (some might say he left it in the pond on the 15th hole at Augusta in 1986).
Among major winners not named Jack only Player comes to mind as a contemporary whose game was very good for a very long time. So before we project Tiger's past success into the future, the reality is he's just as likely to tail off as he is to continue his pace, even understanding his uniqueness.
However, most other greats fell off the table at a certain point in their career. Palmer couldn't close out a major not long after Nicklaus showed up. Watson was the best player in golf in the late 70s and early 80s but got the yips and was never the same. Seve was absolutely brilliant for a stretch in the early-mid 80s but lost his touch and was never the same again (some might say he left it in the pond on the 15th hole at Augusta in 1986).
Among major winners not named Jack only Player comes to mind as a contemporary whose game was very good for a very long time. So before we project Tiger's past success into the future, the reality is he's just as likely to tail off as he is to continue his pace, even understanding his uniqueness.
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I am not a Tiger Fan but in my mind he is the greatest golfer based on how much he has done in such a short time frame. Though I understand that many feel he must pass Jack's major totals to lay claim to the title. I just think Tiger faces stronger competition every day compared to what Jack faced.
Will he do it. I think so and I really doubt he plays till he is 50
Will he do it. I think so and I really doubt he plays till he is 50
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The only thing that has definitive merit in this argument is that the depth of competition today is no doubt far greater than it was 40 years ago.
As for the rivals thing, well you can spin it both ways:
- Jack didn't win as many majors/had 19 runner-ups because he had so many foils
- Tiger is simply so much better than everyone else that he has no true rival as Jack did, he shouldn't be penalized for this
I lean toward the latter. There were lots times over the years where Jack probably wasn't the best player in the world. No doubt for stretches it was Palmer, Trevino, Player, Watson, Weiskopf, Miller, maybe others. All these guys had white hot stretches but they weren't sustainable. However, Jack was always around. His stretch was essentially twenty years, from 1962-1982, when Watson robbed him of one last US Open win. Twenty-one years. Nobody else has ever come close to a stretch that long.
As for the rivals thing, well you can spin it both ways:
- Jack didn't win as many majors/had 19 runner-ups because he had so many foils
- Tiger is simply so much better than everyone else that he has no true rival as Jack did, he shouldn't be penalized for this
I lean toward the latter. There were lots times over the years where Jack probably wasn't the best player in the world. No doubt for stretches it was Palmer, Trevino, Player, Watson, Weiskopf, Miller, maybe others. All these guys had white hot stretches but they weren't sustainable. However, Jack was always around. His stretch was essentially twenty years, from 1962-1982, when Watson robbed him of one last US Open win. Twenty-one years. Nobody else has ever come close to a stretch that long.
Last edited by NxtWrldChamp; 02-15-2012 at 10:12 PM.
02-15-2012
, 10:34 PM
02-15-2012
, 11:32 PM
