Hypothetical Golf Rule Question - Golf and Golf Tournament Forum

Everyone has seen instances where the ball hangs up on the lip of the cup. The common reaction is to hang your shadow over the ball and see if it somehow dumps the ball into the cup. It got me thinking.

Could a player actually mark that ball? The idea behind it would be that they would mark it and then possibly be incapable of replacing it without the ball falling in the cup (in which case, as is the rule for a ball that rolls down a slope when you mark it, you play it where it rests).

Obviously some etiquette implications by doing this, but it seems well within the rules of golf right?

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05-19-2015 , 01:56 PM

MikkeD

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It can't roll closer to the hole.

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05-19-2015 , 05:08 PM

campfirewest

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Dynamite can do the trick sometimes.

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05-19-2015 , 06:53 PM

ReidLockhart

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MikkeD

It can't roll closer to the hole.

I don't think this is 100%. Like, if you mark your ball and replace it and a gust of wind blows it down a ridge, as long as you haven't officially taken your stance yet, you play from the new location, right? Do I have this completely wrong? lol

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05-19-2015 , 07:12 PM

ArcticKnight

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Originally Posted by UCBananaboy

I think Rule 16-2 Ball Overhanging Lip, would still apply, and prevail.
If you ball is on the lip you have the normal time it takes you to get to the hole, plus 10 seconds. If it falls in during that time, it is in. If it falls in after the 10 seconds, you add a stroke.

No matter how you slice it, if your ball on the lip, even after being marked, fell in after the time window allowed, so there would have to be another stroke added no matter what rule you could pull up.

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05-19-2015 , 09:35 PM

martin_malin

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It can fall in after 10 seconds I believe if it's obvious the ball is moving...It happened on tour not too long ago where a guy took much longer than the 10 secs and wasn't penalized because his playing partner (DJ) was telling him ''it's still moving''.

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05-20-2015 , 01:06 AM

Shark Doctor

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Ball. On. Lip.

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05-20-2015 , 01:51 AM

Roger Clemens

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ReidLockhart

You are correct. This is another reason not to put your ball in front of your ball marker to assess your putt, thinking you have not replaced it. You did, even though you left your marker there. Instead, put the ball directly behind the marker, so if it moves no problem because you did not replace it yet.

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05-20-2015 , 04:50 AM

ReidLockhart

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Originally Posted by Roger Clemens

Maybe it's because it's 5am here, but this sounds confusing as heck to me.

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05-20-2015 , 09:16 AM

#10

UCBananaboy

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Heh didn't realize there was a specific rule for ball on lip.

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05-20-2015 , 05:07 PM

#11

ArcticKnight

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Originally Posted by martin_malin

Obviously, the time starts after the ball comes to rest. If what you are referring to is correct, DJ was advising him his ball had not come to rest yet, so the 10 seconds was not a factor.

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05-20-2015 , 07:15 PM

#12

MikkeD

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Last edited by MikkeD; 05-20-2015 at 07:26 PM.

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05-20-2015 , 09:10 PM

#13

ntnBO

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

Obviously, the time starts after the ball comes to rest. If what you are referring to is correct, DJ was advising him his ball had not come to rest yet, so the 10 seconds was not a factor.

Nope. Once the ball is on the lip and you walk without undue delay to the hole you've got 10 seconds. Once the 10 seconds is up even if the ball is moving, it's not moving under the rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCBananaboy

Obviously some etiquette implications by doing this, but it seems well within the rules of golf right?

This would never fly with a rules official with half a clue. Not even going to attempt to find the applicable rule why not.

BO

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05-21-2015 , 11:20 AM

#14

CohibaBehike

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Think the forum would benefit from a rules "check-up" thread. I was playing muni course Tuesday and my ball landed behind the logs of a cut down tree that obviously were going to be removed later, and the logs were way too heavy for me to move myself. Am I allowed to treat that as ground under repair?

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05-21-2015 , 02:38 PM

#15

ArcticKnight

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Quote:

Originally Posted by martin_malin

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Originally Posted by ntnBO

Nope. Once the ball is on the lip and you walk without undue delay to the hole you've got 10 seconds. Once the 10 seconds is up even if the ball is moving, it's not moving under the rules.

BO

I was trying to explain how the situation might have happened. So, what you are saying is the situation above that martin noted could not have happened that way??

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05-21-2015 , 06:08 PM

#16

ntanygd760

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Originally Posted by CohibaBehike

Would that be treated like an unmovable temporary object

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05-21-2015 , 06:48 PM

#17

ntnBO

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Originally Posted by CohibaBehike

Quick search reveals we already have such. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/93...thread-806241/

Your situation is debris piled for removal, and you get a free drop.

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Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

I was trying to explain how the situation might have happened. So, what you are saying is the situation above that martin noted could not have happened that way??

It could not have happened legally. The actual rule 16-2 has already been posted showing this. http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-...#!rule-16,16-2

BO

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05-21-2015 , 09:05 PM

#18

Suit

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ReidLockhart

Nah, you are right. The rule says that if the ball is moved you play it where it ends up. If you have addressed the ball AND grounded your putter then you would get a stroke penalty and you must replace the ball where it was, but I think they revised this rule to say if it is known that you didn't actually touch the ball with your club then you don't get the penalty. Basically your playing partner needs to have seen that it wasn't your club that made the ball move.

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05-22-2015 , 01:45 AM

#19

Roger Clemens

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ReidLockhart

Maybe it's because it's 5am here, but this sounds confusing as heck to me.

Simply, when you replace your ball, the ball is in play It does not matter if you pick up the ball marker. So, don't replace the ball until you are ready to putt.

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05-22-2015 , 02:17 AM

#20

ReidLockhart

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Originally Posted by Roger Clemens

Simply, when you replace your ball, the ball is in play It does not matter if you pick up the ball marker. So, don't replace the ball until you are ready to putt.

I think some of my confusion of your statement is that the ball is not in-play/replaced until you lift the marker.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's why people leave the marker behind the ball while they line up whatever markings they're trying to use for aiming purposes. If the ball was in-play as soon as they place the ball, they couldn't do this without penalty.

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05-22-2015 , 02:34 AM

#21

Suit

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ReidLockhart

As long as the marker is there you can adjust the ball to line it up or whatever, but once you set it down and let go basically if it moves you now have to play it from where it moved to. Whether the mark was picked up or not.

Here's direct wording...

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Rule
Ball in Play Moved by Wind or Gravity
Q. A player replaces his ball on the putting green and the ball is at rest. Without addressing the ball the player steps away to read his putt.

The ball moves either due to the wind or the slope of the putting green. How should the player proceed?

A. The player must play his ball from the new position without penalty.

If the ball was moved into the hole then the player is deemed to have holed out with his previous stroke (Decision 20-3d/1).

Note: It is not relevant whether the player had removed his ball-marker before the ball was moved by the wind or gravity as the player's ball was in play when it was replaced (Rule 20-4).

Last edited by Suit; 05-22-2015 at 02:40 AM.

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05-22-2015 , 05:37 PM

#22

Roger Clemens

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ReidLockhart

I think some of my confusion of your statement is that the ball is not in-play/replaced until you lift the marker.

It does not matter if you lift the marker, the ball is in play once you replace the ball.

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's why people leave the marker behind the ball while they line up whatever markings they're trying to use for aiming purposes. If the ball was in-play as soon as they place the ball, they couldn't do this without penalty.

Since the player did not move the ball marker, theoretically the ball can be lifted and replaced again IF the ball has not moved. However, the ball is still in play regardless of the ball marker removed. This is why players should put the ball BEHIND the ball marker for alignment purposes prior to replacing the ball, because it is not yet in play.

See decision 20-4/1.

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05-22-2015 , 07:03 PM

#23

ReidLockhart

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oh jesus I'm stupid.

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05-27-2015 , 04:55 PM

#24

chichi Rodriguez

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What if the greens are really soft and u make a high trajectory shot wich results in your ball getting halfway deep inside the green and its impossible to putt? Do u need to do a drop with a stroke penalty in that situation?