Bo,
Out of curiosity...
What would a typical PGA Tour pro carry as a handicap?
What are the biggest areas of improvement for you to get to that level?
Do you consider it in within reach?
If so, how much work to get there?

I know this was addressed to Bo but I can answer this question as well. PGA Tour handicaps range from +5 to +10. Handicaps can vary quite a bit depending on what the rating is at your home course.

For most people, the biggest areas of improvement would be inside 100 yards, and putting. I have friends trying to give it a go right now and get on tour, some of them are about the same as me, I give them no chance - which is why I never gave it a go myself. Others are much more consistant, and their low rounds are 63-64(tournaments or when we are just messing around on Friday afternoon) whereas mine are 67-68 and I give people on that level a chance. There are the occasional outliers in there where I'll shoot lower and they'll shoot 73 but that's rare.

Not really sure about these low handicaps in that list. Isn't the average for male golfers like 18 or something.

Looks like some of these are waaaay too low.

I was multiple club champ, city champ, state junior runner up, played with Tiger in the us junior, won muliple four balls....and have never gotten even close to these handicaps..ie a +2 compared to a 0 is like comparing a 0 to about an 8 imo.

I was a +2 once but only for a revision...scratch for about 10 years while playing about 8-20 times a year.

I played prob 30 times last year and am about a 3. Go figure.

Tehan has it pegged pretty good as far as PGA Tour players handicaps. I would have said +5 to +8.

For me personally to get towards PGA Tour standards. Putting. That's not the only area, but it's by far the biggest and toughest hurdle, at least for me.

I used to have a great short game and was a mediocre to poor ball striker. It was very common to hit 8 or 9 greens (or less) and shoot under par. In fact, when I spent two days with Bob Rotella he said my short game was on par with a tour player's. And my chipping and pitching still is, but my putting has gone south. With a short putter I can get a little flinchy, with a long putter I just don't seem to hole many putts. Last year I put a ton of work into rebuilding a good stroke with a short putter only to see it go up in flames when I got the flinches during a qualifier. If I can't become a great putter once again, I have no chance. It's that simple.

Strangely enough, as I've gotten older my ball striking has improved. Hit many more greens than I used to. To compete on the highest level I would need to hit my long irons and fairway metals higher and probably add some carry to my driver. Hitting it longer with the big stick would require getting back in top shape in addition to becoming a little more technically efficient, specifically creating more tension between my upper and lower body at the top. I tend to over rotate my hips on the backswing in addition to laying my hands off a bit at the top. This would also solve much of the problem I have with launching the longer clubs higher off the ground.

Oddly, my technique with my shorter irons is ideal. My carry distance with a 9-iron and wedges is on par or longer with all but the longest tour players. And it's consistent. But as the clubs get progressively longer, my coil gets looser and I lose both carry distance and height. I also lose all sense of consistency in both aspects.

How much work would this take? Obviously a bunch although not nearly as much as most others. The bigger question is would the work hold form under the rigors of top notch competition? Not being a big guy I obviously can't bomb and gouge like Tiger and Phil and Vijay. I'm more of a Zach Johnson or Justin Leonard guy. And as JTrout can attest, guys like that from inside 100 yards do things that would boggle your mind.

I've known Stan Utley since I was in college and he graciously worked with me some on my putting. Lately I like to poke fun at myself by telling people I have got to be the worst putter by far that has worked with both Stan Utley and Bob Rotella! Sad, but perhaps true.

BO

I too believe that some of those numbers are fudged a bit. But also there is at least one player that played the PGA Tour for a while and a few others like myself that grinded it out on the mini-tours and qualifiers.

I would estimate a decent mini-tour pro is 4-5 strokes better per round than your average club champion. And that's not taking anything at all away from how good a club champion is, of course he's good. It's just that a mini-tour player is that much better. I know years ago I would have given our club champ two a side without hesitation. Hell, I'd do the same now because our current club champ is a complete hack.

BO

Yeah that's how we work in the UK still. TBH I have never properly looked at how you guys work out handicaps, I am just aware that the slope system is also another factor we don't have, although I have seen some courses over here now listing their slope on their scorecards, presumably as they get a high volume of American visitors, because it's not something we use at all.

+0.3

basically if your off +3 in america its like being off scratch here in the uk.

I think this might be accurate. A guy in my regular group is from Scotland and he tells me over there the handicaps consist of only tournament rounds. He ranges from a +1.5 - +3.5 here in the states. Apparently when he first came over though his handicap was transferred from Scotland and it was a +5 in our system. I don't know what it was there, and I'm not sure why it has gone up since then. He regularly shoots in the high 60s though.

I have always thought the same thing myself. I also agree that the difference between a +2 and a 0 is a lot. I am a +2 and most of the guys I played in my club championship are in the 0 - 2 handicap range. None of them made it past the 15th hole. This just shows the difference, not trying to brag.


Is JTrout the former PGA tour player?

We once had a new member come in with a +4 handicap. Word started going around that he sucked. Needless to say he fired an 88 in club championship qualifying. He was soon a 6 and a bad one at that.

+2.9 - stadler
+2.8 - Shoot59
+2.7 - rianb
+2.4 - Tehan55
+2.0 - K-Slay
+1.9 - NxtWrldChamp
+1.4 - LimitGod
+1.1 - westhoff
+0.9 - JTrout
+0.6 - StoneCold322
+0.3 - dtf13
0.1 - black knight
1.0 - dzh90
1.0 - durkadurka33
1.5 - Butcho22
1.6 - ghostface
1.7 - tuq
1.7 - duvvard
1.9 - DrVanNostrin
2.1 - mediaslut
2.2 - BigSoonerFan
2.9 - dug
3.2 - ClubChamp
3.2 - sonartec23b
3.2 - fullstop
3.3 - soonereagle
3.7 - donkontilt
4.2 - Low_Card2
4.6 - idontwantarealjob
4.7 - Number7
4.7 - arjun13
5.4 - Nick B.
6.0 - WLVRYN
6.2 - fatshaft
6.3 - Rolo69r
6.5 - DpR
6.7 - BuckTeeth
6.8 - lucky_scrote
7.0 - 41eater
7.1 - CPHoya
7.5 - TripleH68
7.8 - BigPig
8.0 - ph2133868789
8.5 - brick
8.5 - pgjcbsn
9.0 - Brocktoon
9.1 - Here2gamble
9.5 - bonds
9.7 - ArcticKnight
9.7 - toxickiwi
9.8 - larrylegend
9.8 - dcasper70
10.3- mattster24
10.6 - tdrot
11.7 - lifegrinder
12.1 - bjohnson
12.2 - mvoss
12.5 - Hey_Porter
13.0 - RainbowWarrior
13.2 - roy_miami
14.9 - offTopic
15.0 - BrunoThePug
15.0 - brettbrettr
16.7 - Clarkmeister
16.9 - Johnny FlopBoot
17.0 - Ballzack
17.1 - Cornboy
17.5 - Troll_Inc
17.8 - bkar824
18.0 - AndysDaddy
18.1 - john kane
18.2 - gharp
18.6 - Jamming Monkey
18.7 - dizong
20.0 - CalledDownLight
20.+ - JackInDaCrak
20.+ - 4Tay
20.6 - SL__72
20.9 - JavaNut
21.9 - EDonk
22.0 - jasonfish11
22.8 - crosse91
24.4 - mad_hatter
25.0 - surfinillini
26.1 - yellowdoyle
26.0 - Larry David
26.8 - sylar
29.1 - Wrym2
33.2 - Tregan
35.5 - Cookie
39.9 - p566
54.0 - OrcaDk


It's been a rough winter

Hack!

or worse yet

Sandbagger!

Damn, I guess JTrout got the yips.

Nah. Bad back, bad habits, and bad weather.

Brutal....climate here sucks too although I did get to play 4 times in Feb. which might be a record for me. Not sure how much playing in 40 degree weather helps though.

Good luck getting back to that +4 level

I think I shed a tear.

Any of you +handicappers in the Sarasota FL area? There are a few tourneys I wouldn't mind having a strong partner in. Like I said earlier, I'm prob about a 3 but I can play to a scratch if I get a couple rounds in.

+2.9 - stadler
+2.8 - Shoot59
+2.7 - rianb
+2.4 - Tehan55
+2.0 - K-Slay
+1.9 - NxtWrldChamp
+1.4 - LimitGod
+1.1 - westhoff
+0.9 - JTrout
+0.6 - StoneCold322
+0.3 - dtf13
0.1 - black knight
1.0 - dzh90
1.0 - durkadurka33
1.5 - Butcho22
1.6 - ghostface
1.7 - tuq
1.7 - duvvard
1.9 - DrVanNostrin
2.1 - mediaslut
2.2 - BigSoonerFan
2.9 - dug
3.2 - ClubChamp
3.2 - sonartec23b
3.2 - fullstop
3.3 - soonereagle
3.7 - donkontilt
4.2 - Low_Card2
4.6 - idontwantarealjob
4.7 - Number7
4.7 - arjun13
5.4 - Nick B.
6.0 - WLVRYN
6.2 - fatshaft
6.3 - Rolo69r
6.5 - DpR
6.7 - BuckTeeth
6.8 - lucky_scrote
7.0 - 41eater
7.1 - CPHoya
7.5 - TripleH68
7.8 - BigPig
8.0 - ph2133868789
8.5 - brick
8.5 - pgjcbsn
9.0 - Brocktoon
9.1 - Here2gamble
9.5 - bonds
9.7 - ArcticKnight
9.7 - toxickiwi
9.8 - larrylegend
9.8 - dcasper70
10.3- mattster24
10.6 - tdrot
11.7 - lifegrinder
12.1 - bjohnson
12.2 - mvoss
12.5 - Hey_Porter
13.0 - RainbowWarrior
13.2 - roy_miami
14.5 - Clarkmeister
14.9 - offTopic
15.0 - BrunoThePug
15.0 - brettbrettr
16.9 - Johnny FlopBoot
17.0 - Ballzack
17.1 - Cornboy
17.5 - Troll_Inc
17.8 - bkar824
18.0 - AndysDaddy
18.1 - john kane
18.2 - gharp
18.6 - Jamming Monkey
18.7 - dizong
20.0 - CalledDownLight
20.+ - JackInDaCrak
20.+ - 4Tay
20.6 - SL__72
20.9 - JavaNut
21.9 - EDonk
22.0 - jasonfish11
22.8 - crosse91
24.4 - mad_hatter
25.0 - surfinillini
26.1 - yellowdoyle
26.0 - Larry David
26.8 - sylar
29.1 - Wrym2
33.2 - Tregan
35.5 - Cookie
39.9 - p566
54.0 - OrcaDk


From 16.7 last update to 14.5 now. I have almost all my rounds that count as recent rounds. I would guess that I am on target to get it down to 13.5 or so if my status quo continues in the short term.

Solid improvement ClarkMx9!

congrats on getting it going in the right direction. unfortunately i've got it going the other way.

lost all semblance of past ability, don't even really look forward to it anymore, can't put together two good 9's

+2.9 - stadler
+2.8 - Shoot59
+2.7 - rianb
+2.4 - Tehan55
+2.0 - K-Slay
+1.9 - NxtWrldChamp
+1.4 - LimitGod
+1.1 - westhoff
+0.9 - JTrout
+0.6 - StoneCold322
+0.3 - dtf13
0.1 - black knight
1.0 - dzh90
1.0 - durkadurka33
1.5 - Butcho22
1.6 - ghostface
1.7 - smody121
1.7 - tuq
1.7 - duvvard
1.9 - DrVanNostrin
2.1 - mediaslut
2.2 - BigSoonerFan
2.9 - dug
3.2 - ClubChamp
3.2 - sonartec23b
3.2 - fullstop
3.3 - soonereagle
3.7 - donkontilt
4.2 - Low_Card2
4.6 - idontwantarealjob
4.7 - Number7
4.7 - arjun13
5.4 - Nick B.
6.0 - WLVRYN
6.2 - fatshaft
6.3 - Rolo69r
6.5 - DpR
6.7 - BuckTeeth
6.8 - lucky_scrote
7.0 - 41eater
7.1 - CPHoya
7.5 - TripleH68
7.8 - BigPig
8.0 - ph2133868789
8.5 - brick
8.5 - pgjcbsn
9.0 - Brocktoon
9.1 - Here2gamble
9.5 - bonds
9.7 - ArcticKnight
9.7 - toxickiwi
9.8 - larrylegend
9.8 - dcasper70
10.3- mattster24
10.6 - tdrot
11.7 - lifegrinder
12.1 - bjohnson
12.2 - mvoss
12.5 - Hey_Porter
13.0 - RainbowWarrior
13.2 - roy_miami
14.5 - Clarkmeister
14.9 - offTopic
15.0 - BrunoThePug
15.0 - brettbrettr
16.9 - Johnny FlopBoot
17.0 - Ballzack
17.1 - Cornboy
17.5 - Troll_Inc
17.8 - bkar824
18.0 - AndysDaddy
18.1 - john kane
18.2 - gharp
18.6 - Jamming Monkey
18.7 - dizong
20.0 - CalledDownLight
20.+ - JackInDaCrak
20.+ - 4Tay
20.6 - SL__72
20.9 - JavaNut
21.9 - EDonk
22.0 - jasonfish11
22.8 - crosse91
24.4 - mad_hatter
25.0 - surfinillini
26.1 - yellowdoyle
26.0 - Larry David
26.8 - sylar
29.1 - Wrym2
33.2 - Tregan
35.5 - Cookie
39.9 - p566
54.0 - OrcaDk

+2.9 - stadler
+2.8 - Shoot59
+2.7 - rianb
+2.4 - Tehan55
+2.0 - K-Slay
+1.9 - NxtWrldChamp
+1.4 - LimitGod
+1.1 - westhoff
+0.9 - JTrout
+0.6 - StoneCold322
+0.3 - dtf13
0.1 - black knight
1.0 - dzh90
1.0 - durkadurka33
1.5 - Butcho22
1.6 - ghostface
1.7 - smody121
1.7 - tuq
1.7 - duvvard
1.9 - DrVanNostrin
2.1 - mediaslut
2.2 - BigSoonerFan
2.9 - dug
3.2 - ClubChamp
3.2 - sonartec23b
3.2 - fullstop
3.3 - soonereagle
3.7 - donkontilt
4.0 - Squeek12
4.2 - Low_Card2
4.6 - idontwantarealjob
4.7 - Number7
4.7 - arjun13
5.4 - Nick B.
6.0 - WLVRYN
6.2 - fatshaft
6.3 - Rolo69r
6.5 - DpR
6.7 - BuckTeeth
6.8 - lucky_scrote
7.0 - 41eater
7.1 - CPHoya
7.5 - TripleH68
7.8 - BigPig
8.0 - ph2133868789
8.5 - brick
8.5 - pgjcbsn
9.0 - Brocktoon
9.1 - Here2gamble
9.5 - bonds
9.7 - ArcticKnight
9.7 - toxickiwi
9.8 - larrylegend
9.8 - dcasper70
10.3- mattster24
10.6 - tdrot
11.7 - lifegrinder
12.1 - bjohnson
12.2 - mvoss
12.5 - Hey_Porter
13.0 - RainbowWarrior
13.2 - roy_miami
14.5 - Clarkmeister
14.9 - offTopic
15.0 - BrunoThePug
15.0 - brettbrettr
16.9 - Johnny FlopBoot
17.0 - Ballzack
17.1 - Cornboy
17.5 - Troll_Inc
17.8 - bkar824
18.0 - AndysDaddy
18.1 - john kane
18.2 - gharp
18.6 - Jamming Monkey
18.7 - dizong
20.0 - CalledDownLight
20.+ - JackInDaCrak
20.+ - 4Tay
20.6 - SL__72
20.9 - JavaNut
21.9 - EDonk
22.0 - jasonfish11
22.8 - crosse91
24.4 - mad_hatter
25.0 - surfinillini
26.1 - yellowdoyle
26.0 - Larry David
26.8 - sylar
29.1 - Wrym2
33.2 - Tregan
35.5 - Cookie
39.9 - p566
54.0 - OrcaDk

no sandbagging ITT :>

I'd love to play the top 20 2+2ers on this thread for $1k a hole, let's get this going!

+2.9 - stadler
+2.8 - Shoot59
+2.7 - rianb
+2.4 - Tehan55
+2.0 - K-Slay
+1.9 - NxtWrldChamp
+1.4 - LimitGod
+1.1 - westhoff
+0.9 - JTrout
+0.6 - StoneCold322
+0.3 - dtf13
0.1 - black knight
1.0 - dzh90
1.0 - durkadurka33
1.5 - Butcho22
1.6 - ghostface
1.7 - smody121
1.7 - tuq
1.7 - duvvard
1.9 - DrVanNostrin
2.1 - mediaslut
2.2 - BigSoonerFan
2.9 - dug
3.2 - ClubChamp
3.2 - sonartec23b
3.2 - fullstop
3.3 - soonereagle
3.7 - donkontilt
4.0 - Squeek12
4.2 - Low_Card2
4.6 - idontwantarealjob
4.7 - Number7
4.7 - arjun13
5.4 - Nick B.
6.0 - WLVRYN
6.2 - fatshaft
6.3 - Rolo69r
6.5 - DpR
6.7 - BuckTeeth
6.8 - lucky_scrote
7.0 - 41eater
7.1 - CPHoya
7.5 - TripleH68
7.8 - BigPig
8.0 - ph2133868789
8.5 - brick
8.5 - pgjcbsn
9.0 - Brocktoon
9.1 - Here2gamble
9.5 - bonds
9.7 - ArcticKnight
9.7 - toxickiwi
9.8 - larrylegend
9.8 - dcasper70
10.3- mattster24
10.6 - tdrot
11.7 - lifegrinder
12.2 - mvoss
12.5 - Hey_Porter
13.0 - bjohnson
13.0 - RainbowWarrior
13.2 - roy_miami
14.5 - Clarkmeister
14.9 - offTopic
15.0 - BrunoThePug
15.0 - brettbrettr
16.9 - Johnny FlopBoot
17.0 - Ballzack
17.1 - Cornboy
17.5 - Troll_Inc
17.8 - bkar824
18.0 - AndysDaddy
18.1 - john kane
18.2 - gharp
18.6 - Jamming Monkey
18.7 - dizong
20.0 - CalledDownLight
20.+ - JackInDaCrak
20.+ - 4Tay
20.6 - SL__72
20.9 - JavaNut
21.9 - EDonk
22.0 - jasonfish11
22.8 - crosse91
24.4 - mad_hatter
25.0 - surfinillini
26.1 - yellowdoyle
26.0 - Larry David
26.8 - sylar
29.1 - Wrym2
33.2 - Tregan
35.5 - Cookie
39.9 - p566
54.0 - OrcaDk

finished the winter by dropping about a point. got as low as a 10.5 or so somewhere in the mix. hoping to have a good summer and break into single digits