Haven't played Oak Creek in years but always remember it being a flatter, less interesting version of Sedona Golf Resort, thus would have a hard time ranking it above SDR. On the other hand, SDR and Seven Canyons are close enough that I could see ranking them either way.

It was mentioned by someone that Camelback's Indian Bend course is undergoing a remodel. Evidently, because I was recently housesitting nearby and would drive by the course on Doubletree and it's in total shambles.

Anyway, I was pleased to discover a very extensive breakdown of the planned layout on the course site:

http://artofcourse.com/CAMELBACKROBPRESENTATION/

Stretching the course to 7200+ yards - if you look at the course on Google Maps it's pretty easy to see where they found the space, as there is a lot of room between tees. Also, expansion of a large water hazard in the middle holes which instead of kind of being in play on one hole (the par-3 16th) is now very much in play on a few holes.

Additionally, almost every hole is changed/removed in some significant way. For example, instead of having a goofy 90 degree dogleg 2nd hole (which the homeowners on the elbow must have hated), the 2nd is now a par-3, and the 3rd is a straightaway par-5. This is a trend the whole way through. 8 and 11 are still par-3s but no longer run parallel to each other. The curlicue at the far end of the course is removed and the course is now 10 holes out, 8 holes back in. And perhaps most importantly, the weak, goofy 18th hole has been redone and is now a 500 yard par-4 with only a slight dogleg.

If they move a lot of dirt this could end up being an excellent course. Seems like a super weird time to sink 8 million into a course though.

Went back to PGA superstore to get my clubs. When I went to hit a club I talked to a TaylorMade rep. He was really cool/nice and let me hit everything (even non taylormade obv) and helpful.

Ending up buying a rocketball hybrid.

ps. Hit the T.M 3 wood (I think R11 TP) and it went on avg 275 on the machine, while the r11 driver was 280. Pretty crazy.

bigpotpoker, imo those machines are not even close to accurate. I believe they enchance your distances quite a bit (mainly to think you are crushing it and make you want to buy the club lol). I could be wrong but I just don't think there's any thing close to hitting the club off a real tee on grass to see how the club performs.

I played Aguila and Wildfire Faldo this weekend. Aguila is in absolutely awesome shape for a muni course. I think they had a JGAA tournament there late last week so it looked like they really did some extra work to have the course nice and the greens were rolling a little faster than usualy so I suspect they double cut them and/or rolled them. Once again, if you have not played Aguila I would highly recommend it. It was in far better shape than WIldfire Faldo FYI. Played pretty solid and shot 73.

Wildifre Faldo was decent, but nothing spectactular conditionwise. The course is fun and somewhat challenging. I had a wild night saturday so i wasn't feeling so hot for the round so my game was pretty off. Ended up shooting 78 that included a quad so I guess overall I didn't play that poorly. Greens still recovering from aerification so not nearly the quality of surface that Aguila has going right now. I did check out Palmers greens and they were significantly better than Faldo.

1. bigpot, is there a reason you haven't gone over to the PING facility? They are amazing with customer service, I say this as someone with 20+ years playing PING irons as well as being fitted for a driver before and having been out there at least a half dozen times over the years. Good to have them local.

2. In recent weeks I have heard from multiple reputable sources that Aguila is a threat to close which would be an incredible shame. Apparently it comes down to budget cuts and deciding to close *a* course, but the others are all too established/inner city to get any real consideration. Allegedly one of the proposals would sell the land to a private party, hopefully with the stipulation that it be maintained as a golf course and not bulldozed for more inevitably unoccupied homes. There are plenty of tracks I wouldn't miss at all if they were plowed under, but not this one. It's a great layout.

I didn't know there was a ping factory. Also I hate the machines/mats, i would love to hit off real grass to test clubs, but idk anywhere that I can.

PING's fitting is all indoors, but they will fit you for a driver and then let you take it for a week or two to try it out elsewhere. Or if you're being fitted for irons they'll fit you appropriately and then point you in the direction of a reseller for purchase. Or at least that's how they used to do it.

Their HQ has been over around 19th Ave/Peoria as long as the company has been in existence. It's an unspectacular industrial area and it's off the beaten path. Still, every time I've been there for a fitting the sign-in sheet has consisted nearly 100% of people who are visiting from other cities or countries, so apparently it is some sort of tourist destination.

tuq, I would be shocked if aguila closed. I think it's the best city course we have and it's not even close (even after Papago remodel....) I do think most people just don't know about it and/or have never drove out there to play. In reality it's really not that far of a drive and it's almost always in far better condition than any of the other muni's or regular courses for the matter.

It would be interesting though if they sold the course to someone else and they pumped some additional funds into making the course even nicer but it really doesn't need anything imo. If you ever go back and play the true tips (tee boxes are never there on a few of the holes they have those back boxes) it makes some of those reasonably long par 4's become 480-500 yards almost. Best example is #9...that extra box back there makes that hole far tougher than where the tees usually are.

bigpot, it just occurred to me that my posts are pretty stupid if you're not considering PING. And to be fair my last three drivers have been Taylor Made X 2 and am currently borrowing a Titleist. I just really like their customer service and will hopefully play their irons forever.

durango, when I play with our usual group we always play plates/back tees if the markers are up. I think the only exception we made the last time we were up there was to play the 16th from the markers, which were up a tee. Nobody really wanted to lobby to push it back to 220 or whatever. But we do play the par-5 before it from the way back tees at 600 yards or so. One of the stronger holes in town.

tuq, have you heard of anywhere random that is in really good shape right now aside from the usual suspects that we talk about. Trying to find somewhere different to play this saturday morning but obviously want good conditions and feel like it's kind of a crap shoot this time of the year where Aguila can be perfect and then you go to some higher end public/resort course and the conditons suck balls

I haven't. There is word that The Legacy is in good shape but I haven't experienced that firsthand. It's also probably a great time to play We-Ko-Pa.

Played Papago today. Greens and fairways in excellent shape. My swing not so much.

yeah legacy is always super nice, I don't know if I have ever played it when it's not. It seems like all the courses in that general area along baseline (aguila, raven, legacy mainly) are always in great shape. Must be the soil !!!!!

Vistal tho

yeah that place is hit or miss, I have seen it in really good shape and it was actually reasonably fun and other times it was horrible.

I am getting out late this afternoon at Moon Valley just down the street from my house. One of my buddies just started working there so should be a good time. I haven't played there in about a year or two but always enjoyed it when it was in good shape (which it sometimes isnt) The back nine is pretty legit imo

Never really noticed a difference in quality between front and back nine (they used to be the opposite) other than what is now the 18th is a better finishing hole than the other one. Keep hearing dire things about their finances so hopefully the course is in good shape. EDIT: water rights costs were what I heard was the issue, that they are paying an insane amount for water which is affecting the bottom line.

Vistal may be my favorite layout of all the South Mountain courses. Lots of interesting holes, some of them difficult. But you are right, the condition has always been iffy so it's been a few years since I played there. Someone told me recently that they removed a lot of their bunkers too, which is a shame because that was one of the course's primary means of defense, particularly off the tee.

moon valley was exactly as you kind of described tuq. the tee boxs, fairways and greens were all okay (decent) but the rough was non existent and obviously hadn't been watered. As you said, it looks like they just don't water the rough and surrounding areas but still the middle of the course is okay and very playable. Greens were fine and putted decent. Course was completely tipped out and flags felt like a major sunday. Ended up with a 74 with a bunch of stupid three putts, should have put together a better round....on to the next

playing quintero at 3:30 this afternoon till dark (should easily get in 18) as it's awesome up there late afternoon with the shade and wildlife.