"That's possibly the most forgiving desert course in the entire Valley."

ever played Kierland?

MM, Kierland is 1A around here among "courses at which bad shots go unpunished", but it's really not a desert course. It's three nines with three slightly different themes and some manicured desert. I doubt many would call Kierland a true desert course. It's a resort course.

Bitcho, I didn't notice that the back was that much different/fun than the front. As I posted in that thread, I had a great ball striking round but couldn't make a putt. The absolute nadir came on the 8th hole, when I hit a LW so fat it almost stopped short of the water. But I went on to shoot a +1 so whatever.

As for skins games, out here it is always a rota. Papago on Monday, Encanto or Las Sendas on Tuesday, Continental (!) on Wednesday, etc. The guys always have somewhere to profit from fish like me. Most of these games have 20-30+ players.

Kontak is the correct spelling.

couldn't have said it better myself and I worked as a pro there

I remember one skins game the only skin came on that little short par 3 go figure haha.

We are currently planning our annual guys golf trip for Scottsdale in mid-Oct. Here's the rotation the guys planning it are looking at: Grayhawk - Talon, TPC Scottsdale - Stadium, Troon North - Monument, Talking Stick - South, Sunridge Canyon and Eagle Mountain. We may substitute Eagle Mountain for We Ko Pa (sp?), but I think the other other courses are pretty solid. We are renting a couple of condos for the 8 of us, but I'm not sure where.

Any feedback on the courses we're looking at or substitutions we should make? I doubt we'd be back in the area for a few years, so we'd like to get the best/most memorable courses on this trip.

Thanks.

Grayhawk is very very good.

Hidden gem is Legend Trail.

TPC is WAY overrated.

I've played Legend Trail on a previous trip and really enjoyed it.

I've tried to make the same argument about the TPC, but I've been overruled by the group. I think we have to play it for the other guys on the trip that want to be able to play something they could on Tiger Woods.

good call w Legend Trail

definitely play We Ko Pa and sub Eagle Mountain for Talking Stick (overpriced and pretty blah)

also call ahead for overseeding schedules that time of year

most definitely do this, mid-october almost every course will be getting ready or already have done their overseeding

never played it, but everyone I've talked to about we-ko-pa says its a must play

Yes, definitely check on the overseeding. October is the month that most courses do it. Courses that haven't done it yet are WAY more playable than ones that just finished. Greens are way faster, the ball rolls much farther in the fairway, interestingly I think courses pre-overseed are in their second-best condition, spring being the exception.

My general opinion:

TPC - way overrated, as has been echoed

Grayhawk - way overrated if you're paying full rack rate

Legend Trail - nice layout but the condition has gone downhill since Troon Golf lost the bid to manage the course

Talking Stick - fun at a discount, probably too flat and boring for your money at rack rate...if you are into pokering it is right next to CAZ though

We-Ko-Pa - possibly the best two courses in the PHX area. Also again, right next to a casino.

Troon North - expensive as hell but pretty excellent.

Sunridge Canyon - incredibly awesome and difficult course.

Eagle Mountain - fun, forgiving, and generally in good shape (I'm playing this in about seven hours).

I think you'd be wise to sub in a non-desert course because personally the relentless desert golf gets old, but it seems most of the daily fees built over the last twenty years except for courses like The Raven and The Legacy are lined with desert.

The guys planning the trip have definitely considered overseeding. I got an email this morning that said that the reason we arent playing We Ko Pa is because of overseeding.

Guys -

I'm VERY new to golf, but headed to AZ for spring training this year (an annual trip). For the first time, I played out there at Orange Tree. Just out of curiosity, how does this compare to other PHX-area golf courses?

Thanks,

hd

humdinger,

"headed to AZ for spring training this year"

I'm confused since spring training just ended and the next one is 11 months away.

Anyway, Orange tree is boring. Flat, straight, not much imagination. In its defense it was probably one of the very first non-municipal courses built here so very little was expected back then. It is different than its contemporaries in that it is as you know not a desert course whatsoever. As for that, I always try to steer people to at least one non-desert course if they are making a golf trip, as the relentless fiddling around in the desert can get old for people who aren't low handicappers.

Good points tuq and I agree that if you're not a single digit handicap desert golf after a few days will make you want to shoot yourself...

Also, the Raven and The Legacy were mentioned and I agree that these are good alternatives to the desert golf experience. If you are playing summertime golf I recommend Kierland (shameless plug) as they have air-conditioned golf carts, covered range and decent prices especially twi and super twi.

lawl