Sedona Golf Resort is quite a bit better than Oak Creek.

Sedona Seven Canyons is a lot better than both of those if it's an option.

agree with Tuq. Seven Canyons is the best option and seems to be less people around there. Oak Creek CC is kind of an interesting tight little Robert Trent Jones style course that's definitely enjoyable. Sedona Golf Resort has some big time gimmick holes.

I played Wigwam Gold course yesterday and had a good time. Didn't play good at all but that course sneaks up on you fast. If you hit it a little errant on the approach shot it's dicey around the greens. One bad lie in the bunker and double or triple is waiting for you....

Off-topic but I would appreciate if someone could recommend excellent margaritas in Phoenix, preferably central-ish.

Also, I played Biltmore Adobe(?) a couple weekends ago. Course is in great condition but it is a victim of modern technology--too short and the holes are too close for comfort.

Someone could probably do better since I am not a big margarita guy, but:

- Gallo Blanco (http://galloblancocafe.com/), very cool place with good food. Roughly Central/Indian School Rd.

- Richardson's (http://richardsonsnm.com/), legendary SW place that I recall having a good marg. 16th St/Bethany Home.

- Barrio Cafe (http://www.barriocafe.com/), award-winning food and the site boasts 250 tequilas and their margaritas. 16th St/Thomas.

A guy I know who lives down there recommended Macayos. Seems like too much of a chain to give a strong recommendation for but whatever, maybe I am thinking too hard. They are by Gallo Blanco, on Central south of Indian School.

Also, Biltmore Adobe is such a goat pasture, ugh. I live on the other 18 there, the Links course, which is no great shakes itself but about 1000X more interesting.

Not that Adobe was ever going to make any top 100 lists but it was a better course 10+ years ago, then they sold part of the land (which is worth an absolute ton) and condos were built on what used to be the driving range. They had to wedge a small-ish driving range into the middle of the course and reroute and shorten a bunch of holes to pull it off. This included adding the short, out of the way par-3 16th, a hole which didn't used to exist. The course just kinda sucks and I probably haven't played it in close to a decade despite living there.

Tuq--Thanks for all the info. I thought Biltmore was charming but I won't be going back unless I get a smokin deal. Although, I think short-hitters would enjoy it.

I'm fairly new to town but absolutely love the area from like 24th st to 40th st and from Camelback up to Priestewa. Property values in there must be insane.

I actually like Biltmore Adobe if you just want to go out there with a bunch of buddies and rip driver and shoot at every flag......but obv the greens are usually slow and the course is boring.

I had a first on Sunday. Played golf at Pinnacle Peak CC again with my buddies and played through wind, rain, hail and SNOW during our round. I am pretty hardcore with my sunday rounds since I work during the week, but it was so frickin' cold on the back nine at about 3-4 PM that I literally couldn't feel my hands!

Also played Cave Creek Muni on saturday. It was 20 bucks to walk and we went there because that's where our high school golf team played all the time (Shadow Mountain). Front nine is pretty lame obviously but I must say the back nine is actually pretty fun this time of the year because the greens are in good shape...even if it's driver/flip wedge on all the par 4's.

Been a few years since I've been out there, but always enjoyed Cave Creek. Fairly interesting course given what they had to work with. When I was young I remember when it was just a driving range and putting green that was owned by PING and we used to go there on Friday nights for an extremely competitive putting contest. It was a ton of fun and some big local names would compete. iirc it was two man teams.

But being built on a former landfill the joke always went "if you don't like the break on your putt, just wait a little bit and it will change". It was funny watching greens rise up and collapse like waves in a storm. They used to have to level and rebuild a couple each year, maybe after all this time it's started to mellow a little bit.

Aunt Chilada's is a pretty good, laid-back place for a margo. can do some decent milf-hunting there as well

Yeah, good call. Just completely forgot about that even though it's a good option and centrally located as well. 10+ years ago I had a female roommate who used to go there for their Friday happy hour which used to go off big time (not sure if it still does). She was kind of a loon though (albeit not bad looking) which kind of soured me to the place, heh.

Tortilla Factory in downtown Scottsdale. A block off the main street so it's quiet. The patio is huge as are the tequila options. I lived in AZ for ten years and they have always been the best. It is a pretty good pre-party spot to hit up if you are into the night club thing in downtown Scottsdale. If you're not, you can at least enjoy a margarita and the girls on the patio before they go out...

Ha yeah, really good call there.

Played We-Ko-Pa (Cholla) yesterday - had a chance to play Vista Verde for $25 prior to that but was too lazy to want to get up early, would have been a sick combo though. Played one tee up, it's amazing how different that course is just moving up a box. 500+ yards for one thing, but I could have left the driver at home - only used it five times all round (only once aside from the 7th-10th holes), that was it. Hitting 3-irons and 4-irons off of tees and having wedges in is setting me up for a rude awakening when I actually have to play a long course again. Although - one thing that was apparent was that some holes were no easier moving up because it brings a lot of trouble into play that can't be reached from the back tees.

As much as I enjoy Cholla, #2 (my only double bogey of the day) and #8 (par, always a good score there) are painfully goofy holes.

How were conditions Tuq? Playing there tomorrow morning right off the plane - which tees did you play (looks like blue or purple?)

Played purple (one up), because a couple of the guys in our group are higher handicappers and would have had a miserable time tipping out. As it was they shot mid-90s.

So it depends on your handicap and how long you (and those in your group) are off the tee. If you/they don't get it out there 260+ I doubt you'd have as much fun going all the way back. That said, a lot of the back markers were up a box so it wasn't playing to full distance.

Course was in good shape, as is to be expected. Greens were a bit slower than when I was out there in December - downhill putts weren't terrifying. Plus they were firm - if you come in with longer irons it's probably going to skip a bit so front flags may be hard to get at. I don't consider that much of a negative but if you have a lower ball flight it could be frustrating.

Anyway, I look forward to your report and impression of all these courses.

How long did your round take? We tee off at 1150, would like to get a general feel for how long rounds typically take there.... thanks for ur reply!

budget for at least 4.5 hours on every round here in the season in Scottsdale as that's about what they average. You can definitely hit gaps and find days where you get in rounds 3.5-4 hrs but for plannings purposes give yourself 4.5 is my advice.

Summertime around here when no one's there you can whip around many courses in under 3 hours if it's not busy.

It was pretty aggravating because the assclowns in front of us were at least a hole out of position on the back nine. Pretty sure we came in a little over 4:30, which is rarely acceptable. Plus there were multiple rangers roaming the course who didn't seem to bother to address the issue. I love We-Ko-Pa but found that to be an annoyance. Maybe they feel they shouldn't bother the guests or something, dunno. Like the divot fill, they took it off the carts and when I asked for some (because I tend to take really big divots that I feel badly about) they told me not to worry about it.

Ugh, four+ hour rounds of golf give me the shakes. Will be nice to get the hell off this plane though. Thanks again for the replies at least I know in advance pace could be an issue. Time to grab a cigar at the pro shop sounds like.

Anyone want to golf PM me.

Talking Stick South yesterday morning with a friend - turns out the time I booked online was first off. Even better, the two we were paired with went off ahead of us by choice. They absolutely booked around the course in I'm guessing 2:30, and we came in at about 3:00.

Since my friend had a couple of hours left on the hall pass we paid the $10 replay rate and were able to get right back out on the North course, which we tore around in about 2:45. Under six hours, 36 holes, good weather, very little stoppage (had a couple of slowdowns on the second round but we evidently more compensated for them). Only crappy part was that it was really windy most of the time, 2-3 club wind which was changing direction quite a bit.

Course condition was generally OK but the greens were slower than they could have been. Some of the slopes and false fronts on the south course can be terrifying when the greens are rolling fast but they were pretty benign.

Anyway, the starter tried to get us to the tee for the first round ten minutes early. I felt kinda bad but I said no way, we're not ready yet and aren't even supposed to tee off for ten more minutes. He said he'd give us "three minutes to putt". I mean, I can see the importance of getting those early times out as scheduled but could also do without being harassed just to serve his needs. It was annoying.

Are there any golf shops/fitting places that have a driving range and not just into the net with machine?

I can't think of any because they're like two different businesses. Closest thing I can think of is that PING will loan out their equipment to you for free after a fitting to play around with for a week or so. I've done that in the past when being fitted for a driver.

Then how do you test clubs, just the machine then?

Scottsdale Trip Report

Background: I'm a 13 index, father is about a 35+ but enjoys spending time with me. Wife tagged along to sun her boobs at the pool all day. Rented house near Troon with beautiful view of the mountains - http://i.imgur.com/eZk2C.jpg

Flew out Friday 3/30 7am US Air First Class - flight uneventful besides only kid on the entire plane seated behind me, british accent, singing the entire flight. ("Nigel that's a WOOONDERFUL song, please sing it again!") Headphones shoved deep in ears, may have damaged eardrum but worth it.

Landed in PHX around local time, bags arrived, picked up rental headed straight to We-Ko-Pa - changed and ate when we got there, spent some time on the range where this guy next to me wouldn't shut the hell up. Being a lefty sucks on the range because someone is always looking at you - pretty much 1 out of every 5 people end up trying to strike up conversation. Hate small talk. After hitting the putting green for a little while we were called to the first tee on the Cholla course.... and me and pops are paired up with Chatty McGee and his buddy who also won't shut the hell up. Ever. Even while you're putting, or on the tee - probably talks in his sleep. Played the composite tees as that is what the other yokels were playing (6436 yd 69.6/128) - pops played the whites.

Overall impressions of the course were decent, but probably worst of the four we played over the weekend. Course was in good shape, some brown patches of rough and around the tee boxes and it was a solid challenge. Round was obviously put on ice by the two morons we were paired with, as mentioned above, who couldn't shut up. Stopped my pre-shot routine many times just to see if they'd stop talking and they didn't. We almost walked off after 9 because it was so tilting, course was jammed so couldn't escape. Picked up 8 beers at the turn (wife who was riding with us picked up a couple beers as well as a double bacardi and diet) and moved on. Weather was hot, 90+ degrees and coming from a cooler climate felt like about 190+ - staff was somewhat on the rude side, not what I had been expecting.

Course pictures here, password is azgolf --> http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w...view=slideshow

After round was over, found a Safeway and picked up some snacks and booze (4 bottles of wine, bottles of Ketel, Captain and Bacardi, 12 pack of heineken.... for 3 days) and headed off to the house which ended up being about a half hour away, add 15 minutes for driving to the wrong address (119th way vs. 119th place? really?)

Got to the house, unpacked, showered, sht and shaved and got changed to head out to dinner at J&G Steakhouse at the Phoenician. National cleavage day was well celebrated by the wife - pulled up to valet and the young whores out front appeared to be celebrating it as well. Reminded myself to put in a bid on a house here very soon.

Dinner was decent, serviced sucked out loud - having dined hundreds of times at so-called high end steakhouses, this one was pretty average. Filet cooked to right temperature and was quality, bernaise runny, salad for appetizer forgettable. Bottle of cab took about 15 minutes to get delivered. Outdoor fire pit dealie was really cool tho, it wasn't cold by any means for a non-local in the evening, felt like I could sit out there forever drinking and chatting. Headed home after that for some R&R as it had been a long day.

Wake up at 2am from time change, stay in and out of sleep until I finally get out of bed around 545 – shower, coffee, breakfast and head off to TPC Scottsdale.

Arrive at TPC Scottsdale for a 658am tee time on the Stadium Course – do some shopping in the pro shop and head out to meet our forecaddie, Henry. The course was in awesome shape, tough, and Henry was a great caddie. Did everything a caddie is supposed to do – tell stories, read putts, local knowledge, etc. – my dad really enjoyed that aspect as he’s never had a caddie (forecaddie or regular) and was impressed with Henry. It was easy to tell that this course might be the best one we played all weekend, and that the $640 we paid for our round was being put to good use. Fairways, teeboxes, rough, greens all immaculate. Greens rolled true and the course provided a solid challenge. Feedback I had heard from others said negatively that it was overrated and too open – well as previously mentioned I’m a 13 and my dad is like a 35 so just fine for us as far as that was concerned. Service at the course was top notch the entire way through, everyone was pleasant which I had expected for this type of course. I played the blues (6525yds, 71.1/129) and my father played the whites. Favorite hole besides playing #16 which pops and I were looking forward to the entire trip was #15.

Took some cool pics, here’s the gallery (password is azgolf) -- http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w...view=slideshow

After tipping Henry and dropping our clubs off up front, we had lunch in the Grill at TPC – a good friend of mine back home who is not doing well healthwise and is seemingly on his way out healthwise, asked me if I could track down an old buddy of his at the Grill. So we sat down to order beers and lunch and I asked the guy if he knew my friend’s buddy. Turns out that was the guy. We chatted for a bit about my friend from back home, and I was able to get him on the phone so they could talk for a little while. Not lying, this was probably the highlight of my trip because I know how bad his health is and was happy he got to re-connect for an old friend. As luck would have it, the only reason we were able to stop for lunch is because we got out first as a twosome and played at an okay pace. We had a tee-time at 130pm so if we got stuck or jammed up, never would have made it.

Departed TPC and stopped back at home since we had so much time, had a few beers and some lunch. Father went to put heat and stim on his bad back and hip, so I hopped in the pool with the wife as it was again 90+ degrees. Giggity giggity goo! Showered and changed and headed out for Grayhawk.

If we didn’t love golf so much, we probably would have just skipped this round. Not because the course sucked (it didn’t) or in bad shape (it wasn’t), but with the heat and being the second round of the day we thought staying home drinking by the pool would have been a better idea. I kind of lost steam somewhere around the 14th hole and my dad was ready to quit after about 10. The twosome we were paired with was pretty cool, refreshing considering the people we were paired with at We-Ko-Pa the day earlier. Great shape, lush green fairways, greens and teeboxes. Thought it was obviously a lot more challenging than We-Ko-Pa or TPC, well bunkered greens, elevation changes and I think being tired as hell made it seem that way. Staff was somewhat rude and uninterested, a majority of them were younger college-age kids who had the don’t give a crap attitude. Kind of worked out good for them though, as I didn’t really give a crap about anything but getting home and watching the NCAA games (already missed Kentucky/Louisville on the course) – I played the Palo Verde tees (6593 yards, 71.7/139) and dad played the Terra Cotta tees. Favorite hole on the course was #13, uphill par 3.

Grayhawk pictures here (password is azgolf) -- http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w...view=slideshow

Quick stop home to shower and change, grab the wife and head to dinner at Mastro’s. When we first walked in there was a super hot blonde singing and playing the piano, so naturally wife and I got drinks from the bar and spent our time before dinner watching Ohio State/Kansas and staring at her tits. Got seated and had what I would consider to be first class service from the waiters. Timing was on point, everything was delivered as it should be and courteous attitudes as well. Filet was cooked at the proper temperature, béarnaise was thick and delicious , wine was findable in under 5 minutes (hooray) and was perfect way to wrap up our day. I usually don’t ever eat dessert unless it’s bananas foster, so when our waiter asked us if we were interested in dessert I said “not unless you have bananas foster” – to which he replied “we sure do, you want that?” Ship it. So ten minutes later he comes out with a shaker and pours my wife and I a martini. Prolly shoulda looked at the menu – no bananas, no ice cream, no flaming sauce. Oops… (bananas foster martini was pretty good tho!)

Got to sleep in a bit the next morning as our tee time at Troon North Pinnacle wasn’t until 9am. Arrived and was greeted by a total dickbag at the bag drop so that was nice, every other staff member was decidedly friendly though, so one bad apple etc. etc. Anyways, we had initially planned on having a walking caddie but my father’s hip and back were acting up, he wanted to get 18 holes in and didn’t think he could if we walked so we just took a forecaddie instead, Brad. Must have hit caddie jackpot this weekend as Brad, though older and relying on his scope vs. Henry walking off yardages was exceptional. Again kept us interested with some stories, had excellent knowledge of the course and didn’t mind one bit that we were spraying the ball all over the place.

Course conditions like the courses we played on Saturday were of high quality. Overall landscaping and layout of the course was solid and I’m a huge fan of nice houses on golf courses so this course provided a lot of good scenery there as well. Again elevation changes, forced carries and lots of desert made this a challenge – struggled pretty much the entire round but it was okay, it was the last round of the trip and me and my dad were just having a good time being out there. Tipped Brad when we were done and got the hell out of there. I played the gold tees (71.7/137), pops played the copper tees. Favorite hole on the course was #10

Pictures from Troon North Pinnacle are here (password is azgolf) -- http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w...view=slideshow

It was a bit cooler that day too (low 70’s and windy) so no pool action for us, but we had a ton of alcohol to drink back at the house so away we went to try and accomplish our mission. Arriving home wife was laying out (she likes sun more than she hates wind I guess) and drinking so we joined her. After 4-5 beers I realized I hadn’t smoked a cigar yet that weekend, and didn’t really feel like finding a cigar shop as I was kinda buzzed already. Been texting back and forth with bigpotpoker for a little while and decided to hit him up and see what his deal was. He was finishing up his round at Kierland so I asked him if he’d deliver me a cigar from the pro shop and I’d pay up for sure. 20 minutes later him and his brother roll up with the cigar and they came in to BS with my wife and I for a while – cool guy, and nice of him to go out of his way to help me out there.

Dinner that night was at Eddie V’s – worst meal of the trip by far. Filet was cooked fine, béarnaise tasted like a napkin with snot in it, wife’s seabass was horribly undercooked and dad was too drunk to know what was going on to know if his was good or not. Service started off decent until a party of 11 was seated right next to us, and then it took us 15 minutes just to get water. Overtipped everyone the entire weekend so this was the perfect excuse to drop the ol’ 15%-er on this place. Exhausted and knowing we had to wake up at 4am to pack and get to the airport, we headed back home where wife and I attempted to kill a bottle of cab we bought on Friday – took it to the bedroom and I got about ¾ through my first glass and gave up and went to bed. She didn’t last much longer.

4am wakeup call, drive to the airport uneventful save the speeding ticket that’s coming my way from being photo’d on 101 going sleepily over the speed limit by 20mph or so, whatever…. Flight was uneventful except for the fact that apparently you can only get 5 drinks in first class now? Last time I flew first last year had more than 5, and that was on a flight to Florida lol. The stewardess was a total **** and glared at us each time we got a drink, taking pleasure in cutting us off with an hour left in the flight. We tried to reason with her telling her we had a limo picking us up and weren’t driving, but I guess her life sucks as an ugly lesbian and she spouted off about something before I put my headphones back in and resumed flinging birds at pigs in space.

Sorry I suck at trip reports and all of my sentences sound the same, but wanted to share this with you guys Hope you enjoyed!

Good share. Wow, you took a ton of pics.

Just throw the photo radar ticket out; they won't come looking for you and you'd need to be officially served in order to make it stick. You couldn't have gotten it on the L101 though, they pulled cameras from the freeways some time ago (maybe Scottsdale put a mobile unit out there but doubtful). There are fixed cameras on Pima Rd. on the way down though.

I don't even know where Eddie V's is, though I don't stray from my neighborhood very often. Sounds like I'm not missing much.

Interesting you would rate TPC the highest but there is something to be said for service and course condition. When I was out at We-Ko-Pa the week before I didn't notice any brown spots but my expectations are usually pretty low, and my main concern is always the greens.

Pretty remarkable that you had a couple of bad experiences with service, but I've always suspected that those guys all hate their jobs and it's hard to hide.