i had issues with knotted muscles in my back last year. and now i have/had issues with some side muscles just like you - although my side and back issues i don't think were caused by golf.

anyway, 2 things helped me.

last year with my back spasms i literally could not get off the sofa to go to a doctor's appointment to get medication. trying to move up body up a few inches off the couch caused pain where i thought i would pass out. not moving was generally ok. so i sent out for muscle relaxants with codeine - a canadian otc item. got me so that i could go to massage therapist. then he improved me 50% that day and a couple of days later it was 80% better.... TLDR cliff notes: sports massage works.

with my side back pain right now, i tried to make massage appointment but my guy is away with his tennis pro son. so i got one of those plastic spikey rollers - like a dough roller but with plastic spikes. that has helped alot although you have to have reasonable pain tolerance for it to be effective.

can you go through hole by hole your game at spanish trails?

usually i just describe in a few words why i didn't par each hole. like yesterday was:

#1 parred difficult hole

#2 easyish hole. moderately wayward drive. flubbed a tough chip. nice 15 foot putt for bogey.

#3 nice par 3 approach but long. short-sided. took my medicine and hit it 25 feet past flag. 2 putt for bogey.

#4 very tough par 5. very wayward drive. penalty. 2 very nice shots to 20 feet in fringe. 3 chip/putted for double...

etc. etc.......... my big screwups were drive on #4, horrible wedge on #7. tried impossible long shot on #9. impossible long shot on #15 after mediocre drive. impossible long shot on#17. moderately wayward drive on #18... some poor iron play too but generally saved by 15 foot putts. and general mediocrity. but bogeys are generally fine at my current level.......... but you certainly see a pattern to my blow-ups.

7/16: I went on the 15 day DL and then played the Concord course at the Revere. I rubbed a little biofreeze on my ribs and tried to take 20% off my backswing (much needed anyway). Ended up shooting the best round of my life by quite a bit, 94, from the blues (I think they're golds there).

Ran insanely pure around the greens. A 4 putt, a few 3 putts, but a bunch of 1 putts as a result of insanely good chipping and (guessing) 80% from 3-8 feet. Ball striking was okay (wedges quite good as usual), driving was poor but hit a few good ones and I only lost 1 or 2 balls (lucked into a few slices being playable).

Highlight of the round was either one of the three or four chips that I had gimmies on or the 20 foot eagle putt I had on 18 (I, uh, didn't leave it short and made par).

I still need to find a way to heal this 'oblique' injury despite how reasonable it was to play through it (still have some shooting pains when I do random things).

Probably take another week off, and maybe try not to play other sports as well (just some maintenance lifting) and see what happens.

hey, how is this going?

happy to see you posted such a good round.

i recently had an epiphany.....

had always wondered about lie angle. whether i line up irons such that my toe digs in on my hits. basically i would be too upright for my clubs. or alternatively my clubs are too flat for me

anyway, i borrowed a demo 6-iron. 3 degrees upright. one inch long...... i hit it beautifully AND even if i can't afford to buy a completely new set right now it gave me tons of insights on why my swing is the way it is and the importance of proper posture - something you may not figure out without a lesson...... basically with my current clubs i wasn't setting up with my body and hands low enough. so i pick up club and then slam it down. much longer clubs made me feel that. and i can hit the longer clubs with pure rotary swing - no manipulation.

and depending on the clubs i have or buy - used? - i can probably get them lengthened and bent upright. or just buy new clubs. salesman who knows golf more than anyone i know said go with ping if you want to do things like this.

i don't think you can get really good without fitted clubs.

lastly, per injury and the kind i hear you talking about... massage helped me so much. i was quite skeptical but i had no choice as it was debilitating and wasn't getting better after 3 weeks.

fyi, i think ping's fitting chart may show me as 2 to 3 degree upright and maybe only half inch long.

golftown, at least my local one - has a ping fitting station and you can easily measure your wrist to floor length..

basically i'm 6'2, maybe plus a half, and 37 inch wrist to floor ratio.

I've been taking a little time off aside from the 94, will probably take another week off or so and start up again next week. It seems relatively likely I'll wind up just playing through the injury and hoping it sorts itself out, as it's pretty difficult to fully rest and not totally debilitating. I'm not certain massage is what it needs given the way it occurred and the likelihood that it's a muscle strain (and it hurts to push on it). Wish I could chip and putt a bit but I'm in downtown Toronto for a cpl weeks and it's not particularly convenient unless I get into the burbs.

Do you guys see any reason I shouldn't move my hands a few inches forward to change the club's lie angle at address?

8/1: Played a private course that's holding the Canadian Amateur next week, the Toronto Golf Club. I played double bogey golf on the front and then re-injured my rib cage muscle on the back nine (after taking a rain delay break at the turn). I'm not TOO upset with how I played, but I'm hooking irons hard (imagine I'm not getting my hands out in front enough) and can't hit a driver (haven't really worked on it, though). My wedges are on point.

A day later I feel like my rib muscle pull isn't as bad as the first time, I'll just take a little time off again.

ha, cool offer. hit me up if you are ever in philadelphia. fun watching your progress. I started out in a similar spot as you a little while back and now shoot right around 90 usually on 138 slope course.

What were you doing up here in T.O. ?

I (stupidly (despite the weather forecast) went out to watch the Q round today, and saw about an hour of golf before a giant storm came in to delay play for the rest of the day.

Pretty nice course isn't it ? How does it compare to any other high end courses you might have played ?

What do you think of a score of 67 there ... in high winds today ? !

I spend some of the year in TO, that course was absolutely amazing-- massive bunkers all over the place, immaculate shape. Wish I'd have played a little better. Played from the blacks I think (whatever the second longest is), felt like so many 400+ yard par 4s that I could barely reach. Crazy course

Hey Aaron, just catching up to this thread. For perspective I learned golf as an adult and I'm around a 7 right now, somewhere in the archives I have one or two similar threads to this one in this forum.

You are getting so much conflicting or just random info that isn't necessarily wrong but you just can't take all of it and implement it. Your head is going to be full of 100 things every time you try to take a swing and every bad shot is going to be analyzed 100 ways and it's unrealistic.

If you want to watch YouTube videos I would suggest pick one prominent guy and just watch and follow all his stuff and ignore everything else. I am partial to Monte scheinblum but there are Plenty of guys putting out good quality info. But you can't just take a piece here and a piece there from different philosophies.

You are so athletic I think you need to just make sure your basic setup is textbook and it will put you in a good position to use your natural talent. All you can really control consciously in the swing is the setup and backswing. Once you get anywhere near the top you *maybe* can have a swing thought for transition but your brain is going to say "I gotta hit this ball" and you have good hand eye coordination so it's gonna do whatever it needs to do to make contact.

Your setup is quite good maybe slightly too much knee bend. You simply have to do some mirror work or drills to fix your takeaway and early backswing though. You will never cure your loop until you reverse it. Over exaggerate the other way. The clubhead has to stay outside your hands. Eliminate the wrist roll, these are things you can control. Your current swing is drawing dead to be great before you are even halfway back. Your natural athleticism saves it but you will never be great that way. Fix the basics. Exaggerate a steep backswing and on video it will still probably be too far inside. When you try to change something what feels like two feet will be one inch on video.

Good luck let me know if you ever get down to arizona

:golf clap:

Solid post.

Oh I forgot to add that i have had very good success with online swing lessons. For like $25 you can send a swing video to a very good pro and have them send back a commentary video with drills and things you can then go work on on your own. For us internet poker player / coaches this is very appealing imo. I would personally recommend Dan Carraher.

I haven't played much in the last month and will probably wait a few more weeks before I really go out and take full swings, but:

I actually think I don't have too much of a problem with the "thinking too many things" thing (yet). I agree I should be working on one thing at a time, and my main thing now is my swing plane as you alluded to from the DTL videos. When I try to exaggerate it, even when it 'works' (it's probably just less bad), I probably 'overly' drop into the slot and hook it like a lunatic. My assumption was that that would be mitigated by getting my hands more in front of the ball, which is a work in progress, but I'm constantly doing vague pump drills and thinking about moving my hands forward at impact. I think it kinda works with my wedges.

I'm not really saying anything in that paragraph, but yes, I think I'm passable enough that I Should be getting some more dedicated coaching. I suppose I could google it but is there a website out there that you found that coach on? Maybe 3-ion.net?

edit2: What do you mean by wrist roll?

edit: Love everyone talking about how athletic my swing is. Have never been considered athletic, ever, and suddenly in golf I'm above average.

If you google his name his website will come up. If you mean how would you find others like him I'm pretty sure anyone who has a dedicated Youtube following offers online lessons at various prices. I found him from reading the golfwrx.com forums which is basically the 2p2 of all things golf.

Wrist roll = you are rotating your wrists (and forearms somewhat) clockwise. You want your wrists to hinge up and down much more. Try it with a club now - hinge up and the clubhead will lift directly in front of you. Now turn your body and the club will be in a good position (probably too steep but when you do it with a ball your old habit will come out and it won't be that steep). If you start from setup and wrist roll clockwise the club head will move a long way but it will be way behind you and from back view too flat. It will feel long and powerful because you are used to it. Hinging vertically will feel like a much shorter swing because the club head isn't moving as far. This is a good thing for you since you tend to overswing and get the club stuck inside on the backswing.

I know exactly what you mean about athleticism btw. I am not really a great athlete either but I'm 6,2 and 185 lbs and everyone says I have a good golfing frame.

Yeah one of the most useful ideas I've read is from a pro named Jim Waldron called "The arm swing illusion". There's a long thread on golfwrx about it as well as some YouTube vids that illustrate it. Idea is that the arm swing is mostly an illusion... in essence all the arms do is push the club out and slightly to the right a little bit, like you're trying to shake someone's hand who is just to the right of you. When combined with the body turn it looks like the arms are swinging around the body. Found it very helpful when starting out because it made me realize that what I thought I was supposed to be doing (swing arms inside and around body, rotate wrists at impact to square club, etc.) was completely wrong. Helpful swing theory regardless of what method you use.

Monte has good stuff on Utube.

Zach Allen is also excellent.

As is Tom Tomassello :

Here is how to hinge the wrists. The left and right hands DO NOT hinge in the same directions ! :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h22cGerPYvs&t=8s

(For some reason, I'm getting an error on the "embedded" youtube above, but the link I posted is working, if not, search Youtube for "Tom Tomasello / Chapter 3 / The Hands "

The last two days I've been trying to basically take the club "straight" back to parallel with the ground (or slight exaggeration where the club is further out than my hands at 90 degrees). I'm basically trying to take snapshots of the club at 90 degrees (parallel with the target line), then another where I start my hips and hinge up, the another when the club is parallel with the ground again (hopefully I've got the same hinged angle as at the top, this is kind of similar to the 'pump, pump, go' drill). So I'll repeat that a few times and then hit a ball.

From DTL the club is still a little too far inside, but it seems like an improvement (and I think today was better, these are from yesterday).





I'm going to try to contact someone this week starting with these videos, but the wrist rolling stuff makes sense. Is this fundamentally the same thing as what people talk about when they talk about the "one piece takeaway" or w/e? Basically just going back without breaking wrists for the bottom of the backswing. Also that video was helpful.

Should be able to get a side view video when the range is less crowded to see if I'm getting any forward shaft lean at all.

Good job, can see huge progress there. You eliminated the early wrist roll. I would work to add some earlier wrist hinge now, that will also keep the clubhead more outside your hands and will also maybe help your overswinging. Your wrists do hinge but it all happens from momentum at the top of your backswing.

[PHP][/PHP] I hope so, I am having massive trouble stopping the overswinging. Am going to post some videos from today, but they are pretty ugly, just a ton of 15 degrees past parallel. I think what's happening is I'm trying to go back in one piece to like 9 o'clock, then I'm trying to kind of naturally hinge the wrists from downward momentum, but by the time they hinge I've already gone way past parallel.

I'm basically not sure what to do at the top of the backswing, or when I should start hinging, etc. Occasionally I keep trying really hard to take a half swing and I hit one perfect, but I'm still not sure 'why' I started the transition at the right time. I don't really have a trigger point for that. Am going to contact someone today about lessons so I can have something a little more focused. I do feel like I'm pretty close (though maybe not to getting real forward shaft lean).

I'll try to say a couple different things and whichever works better for you is the thing to latch on to. One piece with your arms is good but you can keep your arms from breaking down while still hinging wrists upward. I tend to think of one piece slowly just til my arms reach my right leg and then straight out and up. My feeling is pushing my arms and wrists away from me and up. It will feel weird at first.

Another idea would be more of a feel of a less than full shot. Take your highest lofted wedge and hit 50 yard shots. To do it you need only a partial swing. You have to learn *when* to swing hard, the time to really go after the ball is not at the top of the backswing, it's just before impact. It might even feel like after impact is when you use some effort. Best way to feel it is with the wedge, half backswing and then just try to go after it hard at impact. You are overswinging because your brain thinks it will give you more power, have to redirect that energy.

I basically did both of these things yesterday (on accident) before I read this post. I was hitting some 30, 40, 50 yard wedges working on that part of my game (which is actually pretty good I think, I have a much improved feel for just kind of making contact with the ball), and then when I was working on my full swing I was trying to go back to ~7:30 and then start bending. It was weird and didn't really work and made me feel very over the top, but I'll give it a go again today. I also emailed Dan so I'll see what he's got to say.

We decided not to get the full trackman setup in our house because of minor fit issues... but I do have some space to swing a golf club, is it possible to just get like a fold up net and a pad and do it in a smaller area? Then instead of having big fancy results on a screen, I'd be basically just looking at my laptop and playing a game of trying to get that just right. I contacted the trackman people and they said I needed 20 feet of length (yikes). Are there any devices that need less space that just read the ball right at impact? I'd like to keep swinging throughout the winter.

8/16/17: These were pretty bad. Mega overswinging and didn't really have good focus. Am just trying to bang out a few without having as much wrist contortion.

Honestly those look quite good. Night and day from earlier in the thread. Sure you get passed parallel but you kinda do it in the right way, with a big shoulder turn and lots of flexibility. It's just such a long swing you don't bottom out in the same place every time so you hit some clunkers. But I bet the ones that you hit right are just mashed. Anyway you are on the right track