Restaurant margins are so low in Chengdu if you go to the right places (i.e. near Sichuan University) that it's barely worth it to cook unless you're totally busto and can't use your time to earn money.

Even in Shanghai you can get Jian Bings for 5 RMB or so for breakfast.

$500/month in Chengdu is busto

I'm not saying it's worth your time to cook yourself, I'm saying that if he wants to get by with that amount of money he'll have to bum it out, i.e. order the cheapest dishes day after day and/or cook himself, as eating out will be one of his biggest expenses

$500/m is busto everywhere

It's a normal salary in Thailand and for low end jobs in China, while in the US you'd be homeless and on food stamps with that kind of income.

No Cash Games during APL Shanghai but they have side events if you bust the Main. I ll be there. So if anyone as question about the event. I can help

I hope that $500/month dude doesn't come to China. He'll be very disappointed. For comparison guy, you're making less than a waiter (in a tier 1 city). If you wanna find a place it's even possible to live on that NO ONE will speak English, so unless you speak Chinese you'll be SOL.

syndr0m: is it really worth saving $7rmb? The time spent going to the market, coming back and cooking has gotta be worth more than that. LB is right that if you're going to the cheap Chinese places it's pretty damn cheap. I often get two changfen　肠粉　for breakfast and it's quite a hearty breakfast for 10rmb.

Not for me, but I don't have to live on 3000RMB/month.

If you are in HK, Beertopia is kicking off this weekend:
http://beertopiahk.com/

Last year it was awesome, and the weather looks to be on point!

Very true in most place in Asia. Even 1k - People do fine until the day they want to fly back home or get a health problem. After a while you also want to eat in expats places or just go out with some people from your nationality and this cost money.

As a reference I wouldn't take a career type job in China without making at least 30k a month.

Going there to travel, experience the world, see new things etc. that's different but if you're there for a career you simply need to be highly overpaid compared to your local counterpart or in a very high level position.

Anything under 20k RMB a month is really break even salary once you account unknown expenses, travel home, etc. so if you want to have money put aside for your house, car, etc either here long term or when you go back it's really close to impossible to live a good life here while saving anything unless clearing over 30k a month.

I live in Beijing though where my neighbor rents his hutong courtyard house for 40k a month to a family so while 30k is a stretch for most Chinese salaries it's really not crazy money out here. You also can't get a 1 br apartment in city center for less than 3-5k a month.

Lots of expats really just living a break even lifestyle in Beijing. Have plenty of friends making "good money" at 25k a month and spend 9k of that alone on their 1br apartment.

3-5k/m you usually have a couple roommate and share kitchen and bathroom. I spent one day with an agent of 我爱我家 and **** was expensive for not much

If you're breaking even with a 20k RMB salary in China you're really doing something wrong and need to do some serious work on your financial management.

Where are you living exactly synfr0m?

Chengdu, I pay 2.2k for a 80sqm 2br apartment in a 1yr old compound inside 2nd ring road

Can't compare chengdu with Beijing, completely two different world in term of cost of living

Most expensive month I had in China was 12k unless I was traveling and I was living comfortably on usually 6 or 7k a month. I have heard that rent prices have skyrocketed though.

Guys it's not rental+food+transport+daily expenses =cost

It's far more complex, you'll spend at least a month or two each year traveling back and forth. If you're working a job paying 20k a month then they don't care about needing fly home for holidays, weddings, babies, reunions, etc. So that is time not working and not being paid as your paid time off is the Chinese national holidays and that rarely syncs ups with the birth of your niece or your best friend's bachelor party and wedding.

Then you need to spend way more money during that time. A round trip flight from china to USA typically 1200 or so but to avoid the "I flew to x for y price last year" bull**** I already know is coming let's just say it's 800. Then if you are now an adult, your friends are mostly married and have children of their own, you yourself could be included in that group then you'll unlikely be able to stay on couches unless family or like best friends. A few years out of college I'd point out I'm visiting a city like say Chicago on Facebook and several acquaintances, not even good friends would offer up couch space or spare bedrooms. These days I do the same even "I'll be in x city" and even very good friends will now recommend hotels. Yes I could impose and crash on a couch and if even very close in another life back in the USA I wouldn't feel weird asking but then again you're also no longer in your 20s and find yourself unable to afford booking a hotel because you can only save a few hundred dollars per month and this trip (which is something you'll repeat at least once a year) is going to cost you at least 1.5k usd in transportation and housing then food and even possible car rental included.

So yeah, if you make less than 30k a month and want to continue your normal lifestyle like seeing your friend get married without it being a financial and social hardship then yes you are breaking even financially.

In my 20s I could make 6k a month in Beijing, live month to month and couldn't be happier. In my 30s I wouldn't take a job here for less than 30k and even then it'd have to be a job I liked if it was just 30k.

As a rule of thumb unless paid time off and reimbursed travel part of the package then you gotta factor in you won't be paid at least 6 weeks of the year (not worth a 12 hour one way flight for less than two weeks) and you'll drop at least 5k usd on flights, car rentals, hotels and eating out while visiting home country.

Then there is fun travel, like going to Russia for a week or flying down to Thailand over National Holiday. I mean you're in Asia to see the world and not huddle in the corner of an unfurnished apartment eating plain rice.

Granted finding that without being someone sent by a multinational company is hard to find, so much that I've been consulting last year+ and with fewer and fewer clients in China I've decided to leave for good.

Dental, healthcare, etc. I've been fortunate to never had to put mine to the test but I also know a lot of people who were led to believe they had health insurance only to have huge medical bills because they didn't read the fine print or their medical insurance never existed.

Yes fake medical insurance, I heard many story about that. I also heard many stories about supposedly getting paid 30k/m and at the end of the month they say sorry it's 20k/m

Yeah I am owed money from nearly every former employer, even despite ending on amicable terms.

And yeah I've been through negotiating a salary and getting paid a month after starting but it's a fraction and they say oh it's for probation, which should end in 3 months. You figure you can put up with 3 months at half salary, you love the job and jelling with colleagues but that 3 months turns into the max term of 6. Then the stock options you've been told you'll be given once probationary period is over and the salary you negotiated don't appear. You talk to CEO he feigns not to know and says talk to HR despite that these terms were negotiated with him... then HR says I'm already paid way more than some people of equivalent levels and only VPs get stock and go back CEO who is like "what do I know I'm just a CEO"

That happens once, you try again, twice it's just low sample size, keeps happening and you're like... maybe I should work for myself.

I understand that you personally would not want to work in Chiner for less than 30k/month, but saying you can't save money earning less than 20 is plain ridiculous.

Everybody has their own set of values, habits and needs. You could easily save some money earning less than half that. Just depends how much luxury/comfort you're willing to give up for it.

Obviously it wouldn't be anything significant though haha.

Also depends where you are, Beijing and chengdu reality are not the same

That's my point exactly, insignificant savings and none doesn't have much of a gap from my perspective. Maybe I'm from a privileged country but if looking at strictly work I'm not living in China unless clearing a min of 30k a month and that's really just an average US salary, far below average for my own field.

Yeah, sure if you wanna be flying to the other side of the planet at the drop of a hat (and I'd include going for the birth of someone you didn't directly spawn) and taking time off work several times a year you need a much higher salary. Sure, granted.

If you are content going back *maybe* once a year and spending most of your traveling in China+SEA then you can easily save 6000rmb a month on a much lower salary.