Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Travel A place to discuss and learn about traveling

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-28-2017, 01:22 AM   #76
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

哈哈哈哈 i think they're super cheap. For 20 hours of classes a week I think even in the Peoples' Republic of Canada that's cheap.
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 01:37 AM   #77
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East


I found this guy on qq music and have been liking his stuff. I'm not trying to memorize the songs, just enjoy them. I know we've got some Chinese speakers here, maybe you'll like it.

I think immersing yourself in a culture is a huge aid to maintaining interest in learning a language.
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 01:52 AM   #78
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

interesting article about China's economic numbers. Typical Murdoch skinflintness that the WSJ doesn't give yuo any free articles, but you can still read it, just slightly greyed out.
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 01:53 AM   #79
LonelyBox
 
LonelyBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,605
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Quote:
Originally Posted by problemeliminator View Post
interesting article about China's economic numbers. Typical Murdoch skinflintness that the WSJ doesn't give yuo any free articles, but you can still read it, just slightly greyed out.
Sick 9k posts here... lol. Cant read without signing up.
LonelyBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 01:59 AM   #80
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

yeah you can, I just did. It's kinda greyed out but legible. You got an ********* right?
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 03:28 AM   #81
whereisit
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 47
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Yeah I'm pretty sure you're right, and if you're staying here for a long time I think you probably have the right idea working and getting a work visa. You could do the full-time study thing and, as long as you taught in the evenings, you could do alright. I assume your cost of living is relatively low based off some of your previous posts? If you taught 20 hours per week and went to school 20 hours per week you would be busy, but it is possible.
whereisit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2017, 11:09 PM   #82
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

For May Day the gf and I took a short holiday to some nearby cities. Our destinations were the Diaolous of Kaiping (a UNESCO World Heritage site) and a mountain in Taishan to do some hiking. We bought the combo tickets for the Diaolous, 144rmb each and admission to about 5 different places. We arrived at about 4pm on May 1st at the Li Gardens and so had an hour and a half.

You can read the intro here.


The first places after you go through the entrance are pretty boring, a bunch of museum type things. But once you get into the Diaolou and garden area it’s quite beautiful and very peaceful (as long as there isn’t tons of other people presumably). An hour and a half is plenty of time, and I recommend (as with everything in SEA) going in the morning or later afternoon and avoiding noon.













DINNER WAS Typical Cantonese food, some boiled vegetables and fried short ribs. The servers’ dialect made their Cantonese very difficult for my gf to understand. The food was half-hearted at best. The design was open, so we could look at these buildings while we ate.



We stayed in “Chikan-movie city” for the night. Apparently it was featured in ‘Let the Bullets Fly’. The whole place would be improved by a good bulldozing. Dirty, decrepit, derelict are some of the words that come to mind. There was a dirty diaper on the ground in front of the hotel for the duration of our stay. In the evening we walked around. In a central park area there were a few boys playing basketball, some people hitting a badminton birdie, and some aunties performing a hilarious version of Cantonese opera (hilarious because the dancers could never remember their moves). Since the only ‘bar’ in the vicinity had no customers and prohibited smoking, cards and dice we turned in early.



The next day we visited two different villages of diaolous (it just means watchtower). These were constructed by returned overseas Chinese who’d made their fortune in the US and elsewhere. They date mostly from the 1870s-1930s. China at that time was quite chaotic, and huge bands or thieves and bandits were commonly roving about, so these we built to withstand attack. The windows all have iron shutters, the walls often have narrow gunports, and the top floor typically overhangs and has some sparrow nests, enabling the occupants to shoot downward.

















Unlike, say Lijiang and other “historic villages” these were actually villages, in the sense that real people still live there. That's why they’re surrounded by rice paddies and why theres so many dogs and chickens about. That made it much more authentic for me, and since we came on a weekday, there were very few people (you can see how few in the pictures). Overall highly recommended if you’re into, as lonelybox puts it, “piles of rocks”.

We drove to Taishan to stay the night. In spite of being a city, while Chikan is a “town” it nearly matches it for boredom. There’s really nothing to do. We were in the city center, but the only bars were more than 10km away (some nearer ones had closed down). We weren’t the only people who thought it was boring-in the afternoon hundreds of people were sitting in the city square doing nothing (and not just old people).






I was glad to put taishan behind me. It has none of the charm or cultural interest of a village and none of the fun things to do of an actual city. We drove about an hour outside of town to the village at the foot of the mountain. You won’t find this in any tourist guides, and especially not in English. There are no signs anywhere to mark the way. You take a road by the bridge up into the foothills (soon turns to a dirt road). We parked at an old disused power station (you can see in the first photo). A heavy layer of mist hung over the mountains, which only intensified by the day went on.







I had been here two years previously, and I thought I remembered how to get to the waterfall in a previous picture. However, with no signs and a maddening number of trails and switchbacks we never did find it. We did swim some in the stream, but I was extremely disappointed not to find the actual goal. We were hardly the first ones here, some had left those little tape markers you’re supposed to use when hiking to mark where you’ve been. Next time I’d like to go back with that, a machete and no women to actually find it. May need to make a map, as I haven’t found an actual one yet.


problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2017, 12:15 PM   #83
whereisit
newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 47
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

The watchtower buildings are really interesting, I've never heard about those before.
whereisit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2017, 09:11 PM   #84
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

It's interesting that they were considered necessary. This was a time when 10,000 strong bandit armies weren't unheard. Then yuo've got Europeans taking over Guangzhou, the largest civil war in the history of the world (Taiping rebellion), the collapse of the Qing Dynasty, rise of Warlords and then your regular thieves.
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2017, 10:27 AM   #85
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

the first game

I gazed skeptically at the barfront. It didn't look like much, surrounded by other, presumably more reputable businesses like banks and accountancies. The glass counter by the door looked like the ones that Starbucks puts their sandwiches and muffins in. The name was vaguely Russian (I later learned an amalgamation of the owners names'), and as I walked in I saw a couple Russian girls at a table (identifiable from their blonde hair, surly expressions and lady of the night demeanor). The bar couldn't have been more than 8 meters deep and 3 wide of customer space. The bartender (a friendly Russian guy, short-haired, slavic face, about 175cm tall and decently fit) saw my puzzled expression, said "poker?" and pointed to a staircase when I nodded. Going upstairs it opened up quite a bit. In one nook there were some people crowded around a makeshift poker table, clouds of smoke hovering above it. I was expecting my contact to be Chinese (English first name, Chinese last) but he was half-Chinese and in appearance and manner, all-American.

I joined the game and surveyed my opponents. One was the owner of the bar. A very pretty late twenties Cantonese woman with a wide, moon-shaped face who had was somewhat curvier and several shades darker than Chinese prefer. She was very friendly to flirtatious and a complete calling station.

A couple seats down was Frank. His English name accounted for about 10% of his English vocabulary. Another 10% was his habit of saying "sorry" while dragging a pot in such a way as to make you want to wring his neck. He weighed about 55kg, was 30 years old and prematurely aging quickly due to smoking constant zhongnanhais and downing endless beers.

To my left was a loud-mouth Persian. the kinda guy that would say he wants to be your best friend and try to start a fight with you in the same night. he fancied himself quite the player and his strategy consisted of making large and nonsensical raises. he loudly greeted my arrival like I'd personally come to donate my salary to him.

the game itself proceeded like most LLSNL games with a few Asian gamblers in the mix. I had bought in for 100bb and most of the night I bled chips as I was carddead. Eventually I was down to about 40bb and probably everyone thought I was weak tight. Finally after several limpers and a LAGy player made a standard raise to 10bb and I looked at AQo. I silently pushed my stack in. Called in two spots and didn't feel good. AQo vs K10o vs 79s. Flop came 2q9. river k. But a beautiful As on the river. Suddenly I felt like the last 3 hours hadn't been wasted.

"The scent and smoke and sweat of a casino are nauseating at three in the morning. Then the soul erosion produced by high gambling — a compost of greed and fear and nervous tension — becomes unbearable and the senses awake and revolt from it."

This can be as true in a poker game in a bar that allows smoking and has faulty ACs. The game was nearing an end. Down to 5 players, and several were looking at their watches. I had won a few small pots since my triple up, but I hadn't won a big one off the Persian. His chatter was combining with the smoke and heat to have unpleasant effects on my psyche. He'd taken to raising about 40% of hands. On the CO I looked at 89dd and raised to 7bb. He called from the sb and and we went to the flop. 67To. beautiful. He led out for 60% of the pot and I slowly and deliberately called, feigning two overcards that didn't want to give up (I thought you had AK I could hear him saying). k on the turn. He bet again for 60% of the pot. The way he bet seemed extremely confident. How far would he go? If he had just a 10 then any raise would probably get a fold. Maybe 66 or 77, or KT were also possible. If I called there'd be about 65bb in the pot. I'd either have to overshove river or raise here. I raised. he instantly went all-in and I called. K6o. brick on the river. he shipped his whole 300bb stack over and the game broke. But his bitching about his bad beat had only begun and would continue until we played again.

It was a pretty good way to end my first poker game in a year.
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2017, 10:00 PM   #86
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20..._136269439.htm

I thought this was an interesting article because of what we can read between the lines.
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2017, 06:37 AM   #87
kenyiwu
grinder
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Singapore & China !!
Posts: 430
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

[QUOTE=problemeliminator;52186118]the first game

QUOTE]


would like to hear more poker from you !

speaking of asian gamblers,
i have played in a few local homegames,
do u feel they r more tight than foreigners ?

as for your Persian friend !
how would u deal with LAG outta position ?
esp when u know there are a couple of limpers and when u limp he raises huge.....
kenyiwu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2017, 10:46 AM   #88
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Every person is different, and I find it a little weird how the LLSNL forum often racially profiles people. That said, there is a stereotype of "Asian gambler" and it isn't tight at all.

I don't think you should ask me too many poker questions, I'm very much an amateur. Generally, you gotta fight fire with fire. You can't wait to trap a LAG, you gotta take the fight to him.
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2017, 11:33 AM   #89
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

I think it's important to find things of beauty/to appreciate in everyday life. This are some things we saw driving around in some villages.



a Diaolou. Not as well-preserved as Kaipings.



I like how my girl took this one through the bars.



The old/new contrast has been done 1000 times in China pictures, but it still gets me.



I fn loved this grown over roof.


these two were too scared to get close, which is kinda sad in a puppy.



The older buildings aren't just museums, but places where people live.



I thought the way this tree managed to grow up and spread roots like 10m down the side of the diaolou vividly illustrated the passage of time.



a historic Daoist temple, which reminded me I need to spend more time meditating on the Daodejing.



I imagined a bunch of Red Guards eagerly using this brand new gleaming machines while singing songs of praise to Chairman Mao.
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2017, 08:07 PM   #90
steve420wa
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 256
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Really enjoying this! Thanks very much op, look forward to more.
steve420wa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2017, 10:47 PM   #91
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Chinese barbers. They always manage to screw something up. For starters, they want to shampoo your hair three times, twice at the beginning, then once after the cut. Even when I say i don't want to wash my hair, they take it down to two times, and say they're using a less abrasive shampoo. yesterday I told the guy I just wanted a trim, 1/2 to 1 inch. Result is that the sides of my head are almost as short as a marine's.

Last edited by problemeliminator; 05-10-2017 at 10:48 PM. Reason: once one shaved off my entire widows peak
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2017, 07:31 AM   #92
Bluegrassplayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bluegrassplayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: China
Posts: 31,873
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Nice pics and observations. Never even heard of this place before and I was in guangdong for a long time.

Chinese barbers are the worst. They always start off combing my hair to the side like I'm in some Asian boy band and even if I show them pictures of how I want it cut they still cut it like I've got a concert in an hour.



As far as the LLSNL comments go: I don't think it's really weird. For live you see so few hands and are playing against so many people (usually) that you need to stereotype. A lot of the asians playing in US casinos are indeed gambling addicts, so that's a good place to start as it's better than having 0 idea about who they are. After a few orbits you should be moving those Bayesian priors though.

As far as players in China: tighter preflop but much more aggressive post on average, but there's players of all types.
Bluegrassplayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2017, 10:43 AM   #93
Going2Asia
journeyman
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 232
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Quote:
Originally Posted by problemeliminator View Post
Strange encounters? A lot. I'm not sure where to start.

I've played in a poker game at a bar, not huge but I'll talk about that.

Cultural differences I see every day. My story about the night out was meant to highlight all of those differences haha.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The feud

The Villain: mid to late 30s, built like a lazy retired linebacker. Ie, a big guy, that perhaps was athletic in his day, but today…less so. Fond of dressing in Buffalo Bills hats (forward or backwards) and basketball shorts. Imagine what your average Buffalo Wild Wings customer looks like and you'd be able to pick him out of a lineup. Frequents the foreigner bars and restaurants with regularity. According to what one friend who’d like to remain anonymous said, he either loves you or hates you. A teacher, but also hired as a “social manager” by one local bar (that’s affiliated with another). Dates a French English/French teacher.

Hero: late 20s, built like a professional badminton player. Told at times that he dresses “like a teacher”. Frequents some of the same bars and restaurants, but somewhat less frequently.

I’m not entirely sure how this feud began. To be honest, it seems almost entirely one-sided. I’ve known this guy since my first summer in China, and at that time I was amazed by all the foreigners who knew something about China and could speak better Chinese than me (so nearly all). Without bragging, I can say that now my Chinese has surpassed all but a couple, and for the most part I trust my own knowledge and judgments concerning China more than most. So I hung out with him a few times and tried to absorb as much information as possible. We weren’t that close and I didn’t desire to be, but we were friendly when we meant.

Where things might have turned south was when he was hired by that bar. One of his responsibilities was managing the bar’s wechat group. Often these groups get overrun with people advertising their ****, looking for jobs/employees and posting random emoticons. I (as others had) made what I thought was a general comment that wechat group mods should be more assertive, but he took it at a personal slight and said “well you can leave the group then!” and deleted me. Weird, but I didn’t care too much. I didn’t mention it to anyone except my best friend in this town. After a few months I deleted him as I didn’t see us becoming friends again. A few months after that, I received a message from him saying “if you see mean, you better go the other ****ing way!” I asked what he was talking about but received no response. I thought maybe he was upset I deleted him from my friends, although it seemed like a weird way to address it.


Fast forward a year. I’ve been in the same place as him at the same time a few times, and we’ve just ignored one another. So much for me needing to go the other way I guess. I assumed he had gotten over it, or just didn’t care much. But a friend of mine (a very good darts player) said that at a darts night, he had yelled at her because she was friends with me. My best friend in town somehow hasn’t ever been yelled out (seems to be a pattern of this guy going after girls) and even told the guy that I wasn’t sure what the problem was, to which he responded “he (me) was talking **** and it got back to me.” I don’t recall talking about him at all, let alone ****.

My friend had encouraged me to try to take him aside the next time we were at the same bar and try to say that everything was just a misunderstanding. I thought this was unlikely to succeed based on my read of villain: the combination of alcohol, his natural braggadocio, and his desire not to lose face seemed more likely to produce a problem.
I think that belief is even more justified now.

The French girl used to date an English guy. We all used to play darts together, seemed like everyone was cool. One night a few months ago, villain confronted Brit and demanded he leave, apparently making quite a scene. Apparently, Tuesday night Brit’s now fiancée went to this bar (we suffer from a lack of good bars) and villain confronted her and yelled at her for her association with Brit. That’s twice he’s harassed girls just because they knew guys he didn’t like.


At this point, I think I’m just going to continue ignoring him. In light of events, trying to “talk him down” seems like a very low percentage play. Confronting him and instigating a fight seems like it’d end badly in multiple ways. Talking to the Canadian owner of the bar seems pointless, as he’s good friends with villain and presumably knows that he’s been harassing customers. Perhaps the Hong Kong boss, who has always liked me and comes in more often would be interested in knowing this. Other than that, I’m not sure what’s to be done, other than boycotting those places (which kinda punishes me more than them, as it’s not a major/party city, there’s only a few decent bars in town).


How much would ya pay to see a 5'9 manlet kick his ass? 🤣

Absolutelly loved to read your post on 'dating in China'. Will read the whole thread, little by little
Keep it going brah!
Going2Asia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 11:17 PM   #94
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Sorry, no cool pics this time. Just an observation.

I've been reading a Children's version of Romance of the Three Kingdoms. In it, Caocao is the primary antagonist to the hereos LiuBei, Guanyu and Zhangfei. Naturally I thought of him as the "bad guy". But having asked over 20 Chinese (in a class we discussed literature) about him, I found that not one would embrace that label of him. I told my gf that it seemed like Chinese were more relativistic-not seeing things in black/white, right/wrong, good/bad but "a little good and a little bad" or "it depends". She said "of course you dummy".

When I thought about it, that's perhaps why foreigners are so baffled that Chinese can continue to respect Mao, when most know what a disaster the Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward were. Like he's obviously one of the great villains of history, right? But most Chinese don't see him that way (of course there's some propaganda, but no one can erase the memories). Quick-list three great things Mao did. Bet you come up blank. Because we've decided he's a villain, no one even looks for the positives (maybe I'll mention some in my next post).

Qin Shihuang (first emperor) is another example. Very cruel and a book burner, but he unified China and built the Great Wall. He's not seen as hero/villain but a little of both.
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 12:31 AM   #95
Going2Asia
journeyman
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 232
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Your gf is chinese, right?

Pretty cool observation. I'd guess that's a Taoist way of seeing things, and very opposed to Confucianism. But I don't know crap about the latter.

Moar philosophical posts plz. Loved it
Going2Asia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 06:33 AM   #96
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

haha, I thought people wished my thread was more like yours.

I finished reading Autumn in the Heavenly Kingdom about the Taiping rebellion. Fascinating read. The idea that someone could gain a massive following by claiming to be the brother of Jesus in a country where most people had never heard of Jesus is amazing. The idea that a dirt poor charcoal farmer could become the leader of an army numbering a million at its peak is staggering. As I mentioned, most estimates say that 30 million died, but there's much higher ones, up to 100 million. It took like a 100 years for those provinces most affected to be regain their lost population.

Currently I'm reading China's economy. Interesting so far. The more one reads about China's rise the more incredible it seems.
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 09:06 AM   #97
amoeba
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 18,509
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Quote:
Originally Posted by problemeliminator View Post
Sorry, no cool pics this time. Just an observation.

I've been reading a Children's version of Romance of the Three Kingdoms. In it, Caocao is the primary antagonist to the hereos LiuBei, Guanyu and Zhangfei. Naturally I thought of him as the "bad guy". But having asked over 20 Chinese (in a class we discussed literature) about him, I found that not one would embrace that label of him. I told my gf that it seemed like Chinese were more relativistic-not seeing things in black/white, right/wrong, good/bad but "a little good and a little bad" or "it depends". She said "of course you dummy".

When I thought about it, that's perhaps why foreigners are so baffled that Chinese can continue to respect Mao, when most know what a disaster the Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward were. Like he's obviously one of the great villains of history, right? But most Chinese don't see him that way (of course there's some propaganda, but no one can erase the memories). Quick-list three great things Mao did. Bet you come up blank. Because we've decided he's a villain, no one even looks for the positives (maybe I'll mention some in my next post).

Qin Shihuang (first emperor) is another example. Very cruel and a book burner, but he unified China and built the Great Wall. He's not seen as hero/villain but a little of both.
Pretty big difference between Cao Cao and others. Cao Cao is fairly fictionalized in Romance and most Chinese recognize that there is little historic accuracy to that account. For the more historic version, you have to read San Guo Zhi.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reco...Three_Kingdoms

The fondness for Mao despite atrocities is due to entirely different reasons. Indoctorination is hard to get rid of. Extent of atrocities are unknown by many Chinese. Appeal of authoritarianism.
amoeba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 09:30 AM   #98
Bluegrassplayer
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bluegrassplayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: China
Posts: 31,873
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

I never pictured Cao Cao as the antagonist really, even when reading Romance. He actually kind of starts off as the "good guy" with the bad guys being Lu Bu and whoever Lu Bu's boss is until Lu Bu takes over.

Liu Bei, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei are very much the ideal hero types (especially for China) but I still think that their stories, even if presented in a more positive light, are still largely shown as one of the 3 kingdoms vying for power and not really shown above any of the others.

Even plots such as Zhuge Liang vs Sima Yi where Zhuge usually (always?) wins because he's the good guy aren't shown as him winning because he's good and Cao Cao's top advisor losing because he's bad. The moral of the stories usually seem to be about thinking outside of the box and staying one step ahead.

Romance is a very colorful story with a gigantic cast and, imo, told in a way that is far more neutral than your typical protagonist/antagonist approach. A lot of the glorifying for individual characters is because how they were portrayed to be as a person, and not necessarily because they were on the right team.

As far as Qin, looking at individual acts from thousands of years ago in a vacuum is not really ideal. Yeah he did some horrible stuff by today's standards but that's true of everyone back then. The Jet Li movie Hero sums up his character and the general feeling Chinese have towards him pretty well. Probably sums up the attitude towards a lot of characters in Romace as well.




As far as Mao, I would not call him one of the great villains of history. A lot of his actions are condemned by today's moral standards and people will say that "he didn't even die that long ago" but he was still from a different world and several generations away. I do agree that he was pretty poor as a leader for China. And yeah a lot of the fondness is due to what Amoeba said.
Bluegrassplayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 11:07 AM   #99
problemeliminator
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
problemeliminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: blogging about China
Posts: 9,158
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

I guess I got a different impression from Romance, but it could be because I'm reading a children's book and missing out on the subtleties.

yes Dong Zhuo was more clearly a bad guy. It talked about him killing people in laughing about it. The reasons I thought Caocao was the "bad guy" was because he was usurping the Emperor's power because he was young (basically the same as Dong Zhuo).

When you say gigantic cast you arent exaggerating. One of my biggest struggles is keeping all the characters straight (particularly when they all have two names, a ming and a zi).

BGP: you'd be in the minority on that front among westerners. Stalin, Hitler and Mao are usually mentioned in the same breath.

Yeah, of course there's indoctrination in schools, but Chinese aren't idiots, they recognize it often. For example, Lengfei is the "communist superhero" whose "diary" children often have to read in school. I've mentioned him many times to people (in a neutral way, to guage their reaction) and it's almost always eye-rolling and laughter. So yeah, that's part of the reason for the love of Mao. But not all. There were very real accomplishments, not the least of which was ending the Century of Humiliation. For a people who have thought of themselves as the center of the world for nearly ten times as long as the USA has existed, that was a devastating psychological blow and they take real pride today in China's resurgence.


On a lighter note, one of my coworkers wrote this self-introduction to post on the office wall.



no words
problemeliminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 11:27 AM   #100
BorisTheHead
journeyman
 
BorisTheHead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Taipei/Hong Kong/Northeast USA
Posts: 275
Re: Eliminating Problems in the Far East

Kate sounds like a native English speaker. I would like to make grammar time with Kate.
BorisTheHead is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online