lol this post is ******ed

Seoul is a city w a population of over 25million ppl, yes it's like you're living in the boonies.

Wow Syous, talk about a loaded question.

I made that comment based on my experiences and observations in my time in this country. But you're right. I should back myself up a bit.

I think it's best to start with one of the cornerstones of a civilized society and one that I know a bit about: education.

Everybody I speak to in America is under the impression that the American system is **** and that the Asian school systems are better. After all, that's all they do is study, study, study. Yes, statistics have shown that Korean students are better at math and science than American students by a significant margin. However, the cost of that margin outweighs any possible gain from it. The cost is so high that I would say that the American public education system is better than the Korean education system inclusive of public schools and hagwons.

I did a lesson on education in western countries for my more advanced students. I outlined a day in the life of an average American middle school student for the class and then we talked briefly about Korean and western education systems. The students were clearly impressed with the idea of having free time and not attending an academy. While their thoughts and opinions were pretty shallow, they got me thinking a bit about the two systems.

Korean children wake up early (around 7-7:30 AM), get out of school at 4:30 PM and have academy until as late as 10:30 PM. When they get home after 12-14 hours of schooling, they do give or take another 2 hours of homework and studying. Some of my students routinely go to sleep at 1 AM. Because of this, they come to school looking like they want to pass out in class.

If it isn't the lack of sleep that does it, it's the fact that they come in with almost any communicable disease or virus and are then expected to perform as though they are healthy. It isn't just colds and coughs. ****, I had pink eye spread through one of my classes because their parents refused to keep their kid home from school for it. They just (literally) patched the eye up and sent him to infect the rest of my class. Of course if they do not perform as though they are healthy, they get the business end of a teacher's favorite tool: the love stick.

Are people in this country ****ing kidding me? How can people believe that this is the right way to educate a student? I've seen teachers line up students and smack them for forgetting a pencil in class. One teacher took a half dozen students out of a class to go for a run in below freezing weather because they were *only* 5 minutes early for school. Of course, they had to take off their coats and other winter gear before going for the run. The teacher wore full winter gear and watched from a closed glass window. My friend (also a EFL teacher) saw a teacher beat a 12 year old girl until she bled and cried for him to stop. I don't want to associate myself with anybody who believes that this is the right way to discipline students.

Instead of wondering why students are sleeping in their classes, teachers just beat them. After all, it's easier to just blame the students and beat them rather than see how I can improve my lesson plan or teaching practices. If teachers want to know why their students constantly fall asleep in class, they should take a good look into the mirror. I sat in on a class or two and I damn near fell asleep too. One English class I saw included some western music. Not a unique lesson, but it's a good one. The teacher played the song once, and then played it again. Makes sense to me to play the song an additional time. But then she played it 3 more times after that. I asked why she played that song 5 times and her response was, "Students learn better when it is repeated to them". I held my tongue and resisted the urge to bite her head off.

The education system doesn't just allow these people to teach, it condones these teaching practices. No wonder why students don't have respect for any of their teachers: they don't deserve it. When a westerner with no prior teaching experience is better at controlling a class of Korean students than a Korean teacher with education and experience relevant to teaching, it doesn't say much about the Korean teacher. And unlike the Korean teacher, I don't need the threat of a beating to get it done.

Like most things, this will change. But I don't believe it will be during my lifetime.

This is sorta along the same lines but, what is your opinion on the fact that some musicians will practice 6-8 hours a day, everyday, on their instruments? Overworked? Necessary? I know plenty of violinists, cellists, pianists, you name it, that practice 5+ hours a day.

I'm pretty sure your avg. non musician would think its absolutely absurd and that theyre overworking themselves/will burn out etc. However, in the world of music, this is completely necessary.

Could the way Koreans approach school sorta be similar? Like I'm not a fan of the Korean education system at all, but could it be due to the fact that they put such emphasis on schooling/college/advancement, that they feel this is "necessary". Therefore, the kids don't see it as them being overworked, they see it as them doing what they need to do to succeed in life. To them this is there lifestyle, its just how things are. Sorta like a lot of us are like "omg mandatory military service", but to them its "just something you have to do."

Koreans are big into working hard/making big sacrifices to supposedly make their future better.

Oh.. Many say Cantonese is hard but I find it easier than speaking Chinese Mandarin. Yea I find Korean got so many ways to say "I love you" sarang hae, sarang hamnida, etc. just like Cantonese is.

Any software to practice? So far I am just watching korean drama and music videos.

imo korean is hard to learn as a second language to speak fluently just cuz its so dif then english.

koreanclass101.com or something? i heard thats alright. listening to music might help too? kinda depends on how good of an ear you have

You could be right. The difference between practicing an instrument and school is that the person performing the instrument is making a conscious decision to do it. He or she is acting out of his/her volition. You could make the case that the musician likes what he/she is doing and that those long hours don't really feel like practice.

Meanwhile, students don't have that option. Teachers don't care if the students like their class and some of them don't even care if they learn anything. All some care about is that the students listen to their commands so that they can do their lessons and go home. Of course, you have teachers who do care and do put forth a great amount of effort to make sure that students learn and enjoy class but I found those teachers to be a minority rather than a majority.

I don't see teachers offering review sessions or after school tutoring to help students like my teachers did in America. When they aren't teaching them, they want nothing to do with their students. Students walk up to the desk of a teacher for help and get hit because they're interrupting the teacher. Are these people kidding me? A student needs help and you get pissed because you have to do your job? Absurd. I have always been more than glad to help my students with their English if they need it.

If people are killing themselves over academic entrance exams, then there's a huge problem that is going unaddressed.

Do you really think that their future is better? A large majority of my co-workers are miserable, depressing people. Seeing a happy Korean is just a rarity for me. It would be interesting if the government forced all Korean adults in the workforce to smile in front of a mirror for 5 minutes a day. After all, smiling is directly associated with a higher quality of life. Given that this country's government is spending money to get people to walk faster, I don't think it's that infeasible.

For anyone that actually speaks Korean this post is one big LOL.

And SuperUberBob, while Syous and whoever were probably being a bit harsh, what you said really was the equivalent of someone who's lived in Utica for a year while barely visiting NYC that declares New York to be a hell of a state to be in. Compared to the rest of Korea, Seoul is just an altogether different experience that can't be fully absorbed in just a few days.

You imply that I've only been in Masan the whole time. I have spent notable time in nearly every major city in South Korea and some of the not so major cities.

I was in Seoul for a week and also there on-and-off during the last 10 months. It was like every other big city I've been to: nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. Tons of things to do and there's more diversity in terms of personalities and special interest groups when compared to the rest of South Korea. While I had some shaky moments in some spots, I overall enjoyed my time there. But I would not want to live in Seoul mainly due to just personal preference, not because it's an awful place.

I grew up in Korea and I miss my school years, it was hell lot of fun and nothing like you imagine.

Of course most of your co-workers are miserable and depressing ppl, you're an ESL teacher in masan. There are tons of ppl who enjoy their jobs/life in Korea, just like any other country. Don't post ******ed stuff like this on public forum w your very limited experience. I mean, Korea sucks for Korean ppl but let's remain ignorant of them as foreigners? GTFO.

This is deviating off course from the original intent of the thread. This argument is probably more fitting for my thread.

Imagine? I teach nearly 600 students at 2 schools. You are one student who had a good time in school.

I see my students on a regular basis inside and on occasion outside of school (I live in the same neighborhood as most of my students). When I first started teaching, I asked my students what they did during the weekend as an icebreaker for class on Monday. Nearly all of the answers I received were something along the lines of "watch TV, play video games and sleep". After a while, I just stopped asking them. There are definitely some students who get out and do interesting things. Most of them do not.

The students in my school have realized that the education they are receiving is useless to them and act accordingly. In response, the Korean teachers discipline students the only way they know how to discipline them. The system has failed them. So yes, the education system is messed up in this country. The one-size-fits-all education philosophy in this country is pathetic. Special education programs are practically non-existent. I have autistic and dyslexic children in class with highly advanced students and both of them lose out on a proper education.

And everybody passes in these schools. I know in Japan, you are only required to attend 25 percent of your class to advance to the next grade in public schools. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar practice existed in South Korea as well because I have more than a handful of children that needed to be left back for some time. Now, it's way too late and these kids are just wasting their time learning nothing because they do not understand anything.

Another major problem stems from discipline issues. In American schools, there's a hierarchy of discipline. When I was in middle school, the teacher was the first line of defense in discipline. From there, you can get an after-school detention, where you sit in silence for 2 hours after school. You can be suspended from school where you either sit in a room inside of the school and do work or you are suspended from even attending the school. Finally, you can get expelled from the public school and be put into a boot camp of sorts if you are that bad.

In South Korea, that's not really the case. For the most part, the teachers have very little support from the administration. If the teacher cannot control a student, then it is up to the teacher to call the parent and have a sit down chat with him or her (rarely both). In most cases, the parent really doesn't give a **** about the child which is possibly part of the reason why the student misbehaves in the first place.

I stand firm by my comments. They are not absolutes. They are observations.

Really, a happy Korean is a rarity for you? What planet are you on? As much as I'd like to invite you to live in Seoul, I think you'd somehow **** up the experience and see it as a ****hole. I guarantee any normal human being who comes here would not only have fun but would have fun interacting with Korean locals living in the city. Just as you find it "rare to see a happy Korean" I find it "rare to see a depressed Korean". Maybe one of us is more depressed than the other, I don't know

You live in Masan. You visit other cities. This doesn't make you an expert on anything. Living in a city and visiting it is a completely different experience.

UberBob, you have a pretty interesting view of life. I wish you the best

ive met a lot of happy koreans. maybe i get lucky and find the happy ones

i know right? we must both be extremely fortunate

Haha some random ESL teacher dude asks their students "so what did you do during weekends?" few times and suddenly has Korea all figured out and decides that this country has no future?
Trust me, ppl have fun in school in Korea.

I did not say that Seoul is a ****hole. Here is what I said:

Anyway, it could just be the area I live in that causes these things. But again, I just point out my observations. I don't see happy people. Not sure if they are depressed, but they certainly don't look as though they enjoy their lives much.

Fair point.

I point out what I see. I see good things and bad things about every country. I like the idea that I can walk around at night and not fear being mugged or robbed in South Korea. I like that people aren't popping pills and shooting up heroin. Most Koreans have either been neutral or helpful towards me. You get an occasional belligerent person who just annoys you, but there are people like that everywhere. As a foreigner, I suppose it comes with the territory.

But there are just certain things that just grind my gears. I've seen my students regularly carry their drunken fathers home from restaurants at 1 AM. I see husbands beating their wives in my neighborhood in broad daylight while everybody else doesn't even bat an eye or offer any help. It's just very saddening to see some of these things. I haven't seen drunk men whip out their dicks and piss in the middle of the street until I came here. The constant spitting on the sidewalks is just disgusting.

I'm sure that people do.

However, it is more than just me who comes to the same conclusions. I am not alone in this line of thinking. Other ESL teachers I know have stated the same thing. Hell, I asked what my students did during their vacation from public school. The answers were pretty much the same as they were during the weekends: academy, TV, video games. One of my students went to Itaewon.

It might just be a matter of perspective more so than anything else. Again, I point out what I see.

---------------

Syous: Cince you responded within a quote, I have to take your responses out of the context.

Does it matter? The difference between the two is that America recognizes it as a problem and tries to do something about. The Gyeongsangnam-do Office of Education thinks it's perfectly acceptable and has no problems with the current system when they really should.

I am infinitely more approachable than my co-workers and can relate to them more effectively than the other teachers can. That is why I am well-liked among the students I teach. Honestly, many of my co-workers appear to hate associating with my students beyond teaching them in class. I don't mind when students say hello to me or talk to me on the street outside of school. I actually enjoy it.

this thread needs less education system discussions, and more degen stories, booking club TRs and rekrul stories!

To continue this:

Normal is a pretty subjective term. The lack of physical activity my students get is very alarming to me. According to one of the Korean English teacher, this is because people do not perceive physical education in schools as real education. So, the programs remain poorly funded. Surprisingly, the school in the poor, lower-class area (where I live) has a better physical education program than the all-girls private school which has more money to spend.

You said you weren't going to defend the disciplinary system here. But that's exactly what you are doing.

It's far better than what the system has now. Obviously, not all parents hate their children. But it's a very economically disadvantaged area with many broken homes. They have responsibilities that I could never perceive having such as taking care of younger siblings because their parents aren't around to do it for them. However, these situations are rarely taken into account by any teachers, administrative figures or politicians.

I was hoping to draw this into the Korea thread that I made as that covers this stuff more effectively. Plus, this debate really isn't about Seoul more so than it is about other provinces.

so car gets stuck in snow trying to go eat in the middle of the road

3 of us get out trying to dislodge it from the snow but it just won't budge

thankfully though, a car being driven by a drunk korean and 2 drunk passengers got out and assisted us

it was a side street kinda so it was pretty close to a building and as these drunk koreans were heaving back and forth helping us try and push the car out drunk as ****

ajumas were looking on at the spectacle 3 white boys and 3 drunk koreans as the car almost started sliding into a brick wall

the ajumas started yelling the the drunk guy started yelling condescendingly "KEN CHA NAAAAAA" and the stupid ajumas kept muttering

our car was freed. thank you happy drunk driving korean men.

lolol

fwiw

anyone looking to move to Seoul as of now, I've moved out of my place in the gyeongbokgung area and since we have 3 rooms available (2 went back to singapore and I moved to Canada) if you're interested in renting @ 750,000won a month excluding utilities, I def. recommend taking it. It's basically the penthouse, top floor, sick location, extremely convenient. PM me or post here if you're interested

trying to get your deposit back?

That seems cheap. 750k for one bedroom, not the whole apartment, right?

nah we didn't have to pay a deposit. The guy we sublet from had to go back to school in the states for a year and since he had to leave within a week, he was offering his place for 3k/mo no deposit

For the location and quality of the apartment, yeah, 750 for 1bedroom was pretty sick. Beats any go****el lol

^^^ Seriously anyone even remotely thinking about this needs to snapcall. If I was even capable of going back I'd take it sight unseen for that price/depiction combination.

so i have 2 ex-housemates that ran off w/out paying the gas bill. Aside from harrassing them nonstop, does anyone know if debt collectors exist in korea and india? lol. So sick that 2 guys ran off w/out paying gas