Sorry to everyone who has PM'ed me without response and also for not checking back on this thread - I haven't been on 2+2 for a very long time. I'll get to all PM's today though.

PLDT is surprisingly high quality in terms of reliability ONCE you are connected to a good plan. Getting connected (for me, the two times I had to get it done) was an exercise in dealing with levels of insanity which almost drove me insane. I literally could tell you true stories of my battles getting online with PLDT and Globe that you would find unbelievable unless you'd lived in the Philippines before.

I was on the highest PLDT plan, I can't remember the speed exactly - I think it was 5mbps - I think I was paying US$80 / month for it. Once connected, it was fast enough and very reliable. I live in the middle of Bangkok central now and am paying US$300-400 / month for a 4mbps plan which is unreliable, slow and all-round terrible. I get disconnected often, not to mention the frequent power outages (for which I have found a solution with a UPS....now, months after I should have gotten one).

Considering what I'm paying for the best Bangkok net I can possibly get at my inner-city apartment, I would pay US$1000/month or more for that PLDT net back

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1. Free speech - don't kid yourself about the free speech issue. Yes, Thailand's lese majeste laws are 'unique' for the 21st century but the issue is largely blown out of proportion. It is my opinion that, in the near future, the Royal Council might decide lese majeste is not worth the bad publicity it generates from Western media not used to such things. Very few people are actually ever really prosecuted under lese majeste and even very blatant critics of the King have received Royal Pardons. The King himself said he is human and is not infallible, leading some opinion writers to suggest that's a sign lese majeste could soon be a thing of the past - unlikely in the short term however, due to the fractured nature of Thai politics - but I think most will be surprised at how quickly the Thai country will bond together again, and the Red Shirt rallies during Songkran were very much sensationalised by the media. Many Red-shirts were being paid to demonstrate, and the rallies were largely ineffectual in the end, and handled almost perfectly by the sitting Thai government - it's impossible not to respect the current PM, he's the epitome of a "cool head" during a crisis, and probably exactly what Thailand needs right now.

When the current King passes on (god forbid it be soon), literally all hell could break loose. It will be impossible to predict what will happen when that situation eventually arrives - the Crown Prince doesn't appear to like the spotlight much, his younger sister is FAR more popular and very much active around the country and in the spotlight. Things could get very interesting - or it could unify the country in mourning and power passed seamlessly along. Who knows.

On the other hand, Philippines free speech is a fallacy. Journalists are in the pocket of one faction or another - the major newspapers are so one-sided in their reporting of political developments, it's nauseating. And truly objective editorials are almost non-existent. If you were an objective editor in the Philippines, you'd be forced to endlessly criticise almost everyone - which would bring down a likely hail of gunfire in your general direction from all sides. You can hire a hitman in Manila for $400 or less. Life is cheap - I suggest anyone residing there to avoid the spotlight and to avoid conflict.

2. Stable government: Thais are literally incredibly more passionate / less apathetic about politics than Filipinos. Arroyo is a brilliant master strategist but Philippines politics can flip on a dime. There are those who argue Senator Trillanes botched coup attempt whilst I was living there only appeared to be a popularity / drama stunt - and that it was far more serious and likely to succeed if certain Generals weren't 'turned' at the last moment - who knows really. All I was able to learn from that experience was how apathetic and nonchalant the vast majority of Filipinos are towards politics. That can create the impression of a stable government, when really it might just be a high-level $$ / connections / strategy game - and if there is a successful coup, you won't see the backlash that Thailand witnessed - because Thais simply *care* a whole lot more. In the Philippines, it will very much be "why should I care" for the vast majority of the population.

3. Public toilet system: Non-existent in Manila. Use restaurants. You'll see even in Makati CBD there is a desperate lack of public garbage disposal bins - the government just isn't at that level of functionality to support such services. If you see garbage bins, they'll be privately owned by Ayala Corp or Rockwell etc.

4. "Better country": I could waffle on here about defining 'better' etc - but I am not a fence-sitter. Thailand is way more advanced in terms of infrastructure and government services, incredibly richer, the gap between rich and poor is not even comparable with Manila (the Thai middle class is growing rapidly), on every possible "quality of life" survey you could find Thailand would rate higher, Thais and vastly more educated than Pinoys (on the whole), and (broad generalisation) appear to be 20x more capable at processing logical thought patterns (i.e. "I need to achieve A. For this, I must do B, which clashes with C. But C is not as important, so I'll do B in order to achieve A." - anyone who's lived in Manila for an extended period of time will understand when I say that's a delightful and refreshing trait to find when one does find it there).

However, if you have money, Manila probably provides you with a better (in terms of elitist) quality of life. I don't know what the guy was smoking who said Thailand was cheaper than Manila but whatever it was, I want some. Everything is vastly more expensive in Thailand, including and maybe especially, human labour. Rockwell is not even close to indicative of Manila or the Philippines - it's like a little luxury haven for foreigners and rich locals - and even then, Rockwell is cheaper across the board than central Bangkok.

5. Ease of long term stay: This one is easy. Philippines AINEC. I reckon you could stay in Philippines for 50 years without hassle, and if you did eventually find hassle, it could be likely negated very easily with some Peso. Thailand long-term stays are possible, but you gotta know the right people and you pay serious money to avoid huge 'hassle'.

6. Other Asian countries worth considering: You can easily work through them. I have friends in Hong Kong and Macau who love it. I don't like either place myself. Vietnam is very poor and chaotic. Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, etc - lol. South Korea is very expensive, as is Japan. Hardly anyone speaks English and I doubt I'll ever visit Seoul again and I can't see myself ever living in Tokyo. Friends of mine have lived in Shanghai and hated it. India is just wow - like you either love it or hate it, it's another universe (I hate it, too insane for me). Pakistan - lol. Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, etc - all poverty-stricken. Indonesia - you'd have to be insane to live there imo. If I have to explain why, you're probably not someone I'd feel comfortable with explaining why to. Taiwan I know absolutely nothing about. Malaysia is a fascinating country but too religious for me to ever consider living there. Definitely worth a holiday to KL if you're in SE Asia - you'll likely be amazed in positive ways, I certainly was - without doubt, the best food of any country I've visited on the globe. I think that's about it.

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The ABSOLUTE most interesting thing about that picture is that so many people are actually in it. As stated above, Pinoys are not known for political activism - that picture, almost counter-intuitively, is actually a HUGELY POSITIVE sign for the country (that so many people actually care enough about something to demonstrate).

As the guys that live there already said, when there are demonstrations there, it's usually very peaceful and passive. Major disruptions to traffic obv, but if you have a problem with sitting for long periods of time stuck in traffic, you should NOT be living in Manila. I've been all over the world and haven't seen traffic even *close* to the chaotic ridiculous nature of EDSA and Makati traffic. And I think the fact that Bangkok has tens of thousands of moped taxis which have popped up out of almost nowhere in the last 5-10 years (tuk-tuk's will soon be almost non-existent) and Manila (specifically Makati) doesn't have thousands of moped taxis says a LOT about the two countries, if you can read between the lines.

There are some VERY big live games here and there occasionally in Manila - some MUCH bigger than 10/20nl (USD). Playing in them will be a mixture of wealthy foreigners, some young (surprisingly talented) live pros (often on staking deals), and local upper class (usually retired politicians or military types).

You should be wary about ANY live game in ANY country whether the game is on the up and up (hell, you should be wary about online games now unless you're a special kind of fool) - but rarely would this fact be more important a consideration than in Manila, yes.

This is very close to one of the dumbest things I have ever read. I don't mean to be offensive, but I'm not sure you should be living in the 3rd world with this kind of attitude and apparently lack of understanding how the world works in general, let alone how things work in the Philippines.

1. Even if this were true, you should NEVER repeat stuff like this, even on an online forum. And to specifically mention his name...? Are you insane? If I have to explain why this is a bad idea, you're in bigger trouble than I thought.

2. The fact that you believed whomever told you this story means you are just simply....struggling to put this in gentle language....oh heck, you're a moron for believing this dribble. Sorry if that offends you.

3. If the President wanted this guy dead, he'd almost certainly be dead. I don't really believe GMA operates in that fashion, however. I'm not saying her rivals aren't occasionally dispatched in such a fashion, I honestly don't know. But I'm sure that if they are, the 'handling' of such affairs would be controlled by people many levels below Arroyo - and almost certainly without her direct knowledge, imo.

4. If there is a 10 million Peso bounty on some random guy's head, he would be dead unless he rolls around in ARMOURED cars and is literally surrounded by dozens of loyal bodyguards willing to take incoming rounds for him. He would not be sitting at your ****ing 10/20 peso poker game in Davao.

5. The stupidity of that statement has me gob-smacked. The levels of stupidity.... You probably genuinely should not be living in the Philippines, dude - and I do not say that with malice.

bam

Come back

Sup Paul. I had such a horror start to Bangkok (I swear no one runs worse at 'life' than I do) that I was half-joking with a number of people about moving back. But I stupidly sent Janine off to Florida - and without her, Manila would be Hell again for me, I think.

Anyway, it would be too embarrassing to have moved back so soon

I won't be here in Bangkok long. Probably moving back to Australia (Sydney most probably) next year or maybe SoCal - am sick of poker, am probably going to go back to school to have something to do.

Glad to hear you're still loving it there. No girl has managed to tie you down yet?

Thanks it is helpful

Do you know a nice hotel (not that expensive but good) to stay some times in Makati before relocate to a condo?

Any advice about a good estate agent/website to find that condo?

Anyone has some info about the new big Casino resort that is going to open soon in Manila? Appearantly they are going to transport tourists by buses from other locations to this place.

Would be nice if they will have a big poker room there.

Its possible but no fun. Calculate at least 50k plus the rent for the condo (no car or oversea flights/holiday included)

Mako987 not entirely sure about hotels tbh. Regarding real estate agents once you are here if you are checking out Rockwell you can go directly to the leasing office. I know one website (housinteractive.com) and another real estate personally who I can PM you the details of but to be honest I have very little experience with them personally so I cannot recommend either the site or the agent I know. The site is relatively well organized so I would think that might tend to speak in its favor.

Regarding yoyo's intense criticism of this country, despite his pretty harsh tone, just about everything he said is largely true. However, there are many redeeming qualities despite the truth of what he said, and what I find is a lot of the people I know here, both locals and foreigners, are pretty happy here.

Mako987 not entirely sure about hotels tbh. Regarding real estate agents once you are here if you are checking out Rockwell you can go directly to the leasing office. I know one website (housinteractive.com) and another real estate personally who I can PM you the details of but to be honest I have very little experience with them personally so I cannot recommend either the site or the agent I know. The site is relatively well organized so I would think that might tend to speak in its favor.

Regarding yoyo's intense criticism of this country, despite his pretty harsh tone, just about everything he said is largely true. However, there are many redeeming qualities despite the truth of what he said, and what I find is a lot of the people I know here, both locals and foreigners, are pretty happy here.

Thanks. I will check prices. I plan to move there around December. Last question : is it a problem not to have a car in Makati ? For buying foods or going some party in Makati, is it okay by foot, taxi or bike ? No subway I guess.

Taxi does the job fine 99% of the time, basically as long as u don't decide last minute during rush hour when it's raining that you want to meet someone in 20 mins.

Because of live poker possibilities and some other reasons I would really want to move to Manila instead of living in Thailand wich I truly love to do.

I have a friend that lives there, and he says, if you like living in Bangkok you would like Manila even better.

Then thing is tho, that I so often read bad stuff about Manila." Hell hole on earth" is a common description. 9 people out of 10 absolutely hate Manila according to my resurch on different forums.

Here is what I have found out this far:

Manila has good reliable internet. Better than Thailand.

Manila has awful trafic. Worse then Bangkok.

Manila has friendlier people than Thailand. (have hard to believe this, but if they are even as nice as in Thailand it is perfect for me)

Manila has horrible food. Does not affect me so much since I am planning to cook my own food at home and I guess that I should be able to find good food products to cook if I pay for it?

Manila is much more dangerous if you are in the wrong places at the wrong times. (have no problem with that)

Manila is much more expensive than the rest of the Phills but still not more expensive than Bangkok. (this fact I am unsure of because I often read that Makati, Rockwell district (where you have to live) is almost as expensive as in western countrys)

There are alot of scams going on in Manila, probably more than Thailand.

The polution could sometimess make you feel sick in Manila.

The visa issue is ALOT of easier in the Phills than in Thailand. I can buy permanent visa for not much money at all with the right connections.

It is alot more dirty in Manila than in Thailand.

The shopping in Manila is bigger that in Bangkok, there are many huge malls there.

Most people speak English in Manila.

The phills are much more western influented than Thailand.

Rents in the nicer districts of Manila are alittle bit more expensive than in Bangkok?

If you leave the cities of Bangkok and Manila, Phills has much better beach life than Thailand.

I would appreciate if you guys could correct me where I have been wrong in my descriptions of Thailand vs Manila, and please also add some info if you may?

Thanks!

hh

Don't know about Thailand as I've never been there so I didn't exactly do a comparison, but I did answer your questions.

Hard to say who's friendlier but I've found that Filipinas (girls) are definitely more "playful" than any other race.

Not true but I agree that some local dishes are gross (sinigang lol). Western food is widely available here and it's quite good. Fresh ingredients also widely available.

Well, yoyo said Thailand is more expensive than Rockwell and that more or less confirmed my initial impression. Definitely not more expensive than Western countries. Something like Rockwell in the USA would cost 8-10x as much.

Bangkok was quite bad when I visited last year. It's not too bad in most areas in Manila imo.

Yes, Manila is the most Western city in all of Asia. However there are a LOT more expats in Bangkok/Thailand.

Thanks for the responses guys!

It is very possible that I am going to move to Rockwell in about 2 months. I am moving with a Swedish fiance and a 2, 5 year old son.

I was thinking of getting me a one bed room apartment, or a big studio in rockwell area. I plan on living in a high-end building so I minimise the risk of getting scammed of the deposit and other stuff. What I understand so do this places have there own generators, wich is good becasue I want best possible internet connection.

Since I am engaged I will not pay for girls, I will not either go out and party. My days will include training MMA wich I understand is quite big there, go to shopping malls, lay by the pool, have a massage every now and then, and find me a place where I can go with my son so that he can play with other children. Once or twise per week we will go out and eat in a restaurant , the other meals we are going to cook home with quality products, local and imported. (I have decided to start eating healthy food only)

To sum it up, nice apartment good internet, eating home, training at gym, laying by the pool, visiting shopping malls and playgrounds for children.

Would appreciate if anyone could estimate what monthly budget is needed for this lifestyle in Rockwell area or similar area? (after the deposit on the apartment are payed offcourse)

Thanks!

Ps Also, if I sometimes would like to take my family on a 3 day trip to a nice beach with internet connection (Boracay maybe?) what is that going to cost? Including the hotel.

There are no big studios in rockwell and it doesnt matter if you live in a high-end building if the owner of the unit decides to scam you they do,
I think that you are looking at around 3-4 k USD a month for the three of you including the rent at around 1k- usd for a one bedroom apartment.

Hi guys, I read this thread a while back, but forgot the answer I'm looking for >,<

If I'm looking to travel to the PH anywhere from 1 months to 6 months (in 2010), do I need to have any extra passport stuff? Can I just buy my ticket and be on my way or no?

Yes, you just have to extend your visa when you get the the ph

no. but ur supposed to.

Well after my first 5 days here I can say it has been an interesting experience thus far. 'Filipino time' is something that you need to get used to and after living a fast paced Western life it was the first thing I noticed, but I'm pretty laid back so I dont find it too much a problem.

I have been staying with my gf family around the place, first stop was Payatas which is pretty much a slum right near a rubbish tip but was interesting to see the type of life they live. Drinking is pretty much a way of life and Red Horse is really popular for the locals. Last 2 nights I stayed at Amozonia bar which was good, played poker at Hyatt and then a went to karoke at the music bar which was an awsome time.

Im here for another 2 weeks and trying to get some more ideas on what to do, thinking about going to Angeles for a few days, anyone been before and liked it?

Sils let's meet up some time, you should actually come here to Rockwell to see if you like it in case you are thinking about moving here. Also re Angeles, your gf doesn't care that u're going there?

Yeah she would be coming with me, having her able to speak Tagalog has made life much easier but it means no girls so its kind of a trade off I guess. I'm going to be away in Angeles for a few days but when I get back ill shoot you a pm and organise to have a beer. Talk soon

Its not everybody's cup of tea but you cant say you have had the full Filipino experience if you dont watch a cockfight.

also if you like scuba, Anilao in batangas is worth checking out and Tagaytay is also a nice day trip for site seeing. These two places are driving distance from Manila.

Paul, this is true for real?