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WSOP ME 60+bb Stacks - Shove/Fold Spot? WSOP ME 60+bb Stacks - Shove/Fold Spot?

07-21-2016 , 10:33 AM
I was not in this hand.

Button and BB end up heads up pre-flop in this hand. It is apparent that they are two of the three strongest players at the table, both by reputation/prior results and by their play. They have a substantial edge on the table as it currently exists. BB has shown to be looser and more aggressive than button, who has not (apparently) gotten out of line.

Button covers BB marginally. Effective stacks a bit over 60bb. Blinds 4,000/8000, no meaningful pay jumps in the near future.

Action:

Folds to Button who makes a standard open (<3bb). SB folds and BB raises to 6bb.

Button raises to 15bb.

BB jams.

Button snap calls.

Ranges?

Will post results but want to follow thoughts first.
07-21-2016 , 10:48 AM
i dont think the rangers are particularly interesting, plus there could be more going on than what's presented in the OP. i think BB's 3bet to 6bb is unorthodox and doesnt seem good in most contexts. better to have a stronger defend range than inviting larger pots oop against the only other strong player when you're giving them mandatory defend3b odds. but if the open was to 2.2x or whatever then i guess 6x is fine.

i think BTN is supposed to only have QQ+/AK to 4b/snap but with reads or something then add TT+ i guess?
07-21-2016 , 11:43 AM
OP Doesn't mention anything about the dynamics between the players. Is this a Craig vs James or Chun-Li-Zhang vs Victor ?
07-21-2016 , 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChanY
OP Doesn't mention anything about the dynamics between the players. Is this a Craig vs James or Chun-Li-Zhang vs Victor ?
One prior hand where Button outplayed BB but not a very big pot. Early enough in day where there were no meaningful confrontations, in terms of quantity, between any players.
07-21-2016 , 12:31 PM
JJ+ AK for btn given how soft the main event is. Meh TT AQ are close for the BB. Hate 5b AQ TT but probably OK w dynamics I guess, flatting 4b is also fine
07-21-2016 , 12:40 PM
I think this might depend on prior history.

Maybe BB is some crazy nut who has AT and figured he had a read that Button was 5 betting with garbage.

I would expect button to be on JJ+, maybe AQ. BB can be wider if there is some kind of history or he has a read.
07-21-2016 , 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by likes
One prior hand where Button outplayed BB but not a very big pot. Early enough in day where there were no meaningful confrontations, in terms of quantity, between any players.
If we are talking about a Chun-Li vs Victor scenario both the 3 and 4-bet could be very light however once the BB jams BTN should probably procceed with something like 99+ AJs+. If it is a nittier dynamic TT+ and AK-ish is probably closer to the truth.


disclaimer: I am basicly clueless about live MTTs
07-21-2016 , 01:50 PM
Button: QQ+, AK+

BB: obviously must be wider than button's range, but how much depends on what he thinks the button's 4B/fold range is. I am guessing TT+, AQs+.

But because it has been posted here, I think we'll see something like button 77 and BB A5s.
07-21-2016 , 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by likes

Action:

Folds to Button who makes a standard open (<3bb). SB folds and BB raises to 6bb.


Ranges?

Based on this buttonclicking I would say BB hasn't heard of the word "range" and/or probably has KK+.
07-21-2016 , 06:19 PM
BB turned over AK

Button had tens

I was surprised that they were willing to go this far pre-flop when they had a huge advantage over the rest of the table and there were a decent number of chips to be won from the weaker players. The player on the button particularly had a huge edge and it seemed to me like flipping for stacks wasn't in his best interests at the time.
07-21-2016 , 06:24 PM
BB just uses terrible sizings, but 3b/5b is superstandard. Button definitely butchered this, I'd just flat vs BB's sizing especially
07-22-2016 , 01:24 AM
"strongest players"
07-22-2016 , 10:26 PM
Yeah gotta flat TT vs that sizing. Not a fan of that sizing, but if btn respons by 4betting way too much it can be pretty good. Button 4bet sizing is also quite bad, 14.2x or something would be much better with most hands. His 4bet really looks like TT-QQ/AK or air now that it's so large.
07-22-2016 , 10:35 PM
only difference between 14.2 and 15 should be how f tilted i would be that someone slowed down the game with that nonsense thinking it should change ranges significantly
07-22-2016 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by watevs
only difference between 14.2 and 15 should be how f tilted i would be that someone slowed down the game with that nonsense thinking it should change ranges significantly
Lol

Terribly played by both

      
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