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Old 06-05-2008, 02:58 AM   #31
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Re: WSOP 2k NL Rivered Straight spot

but we beat 0 hands, so only losing to one doesn't help us
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:18 AM   #32
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Re: WSOP 2k NL Rivered Straight spot

why cant he have K3s or Q3s ?
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:24 AM   #33
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Re: WSOP 2k NL Rivered Straight spot

if he somehow winds up with either of those after PF, he usually either donks the flop or turn (esp. Q3), and he's far more likely to have overcalled QQ than both of those put together
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:26 AM   #34
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Re: WSOP 2k NL Rivered Straight spot

he has QQ/33 fold everything.
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:28 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steroid Boy View Post
if everyone is folding to a raise wouldnt the best play be to just call the river.
Only if you value getting to showdown more than you value value.
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:28 AM   #36
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Also, old people overcall QQ all the time

Because they want to see if an ace or king flops
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:28 PM   #37
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Re: WSOP 2k NL Rivered Straight spot

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Originally Posted by nath View Post
Also, old people overcall QQ all the time

Because they want to see if an ace or king flops
Disagree, I have never seen an old person overcall with QQ in this or similar spots in a live tournament, ever. Thinking about folding A3 is lunacy.

Whether I'd call here is totally dependent on live reads -- if I thought the guy was actually tanking, I'd cry and call and expect to chop enough, if not, I'd fold. 15 seconds seems like too short to really think about it and strikes me as a dramatic pause (which I think is what adanthar was saying). Bet size seems value-ish as well -- if the guy was smart enough to realize that his JT was up against at least one more JT but was rarely ever beat I would think he would shove rather than make a small raise. And I can't ever remember seeing an old guy bet/3bet OTR without a huge, huge hand, completely agree with adanthar on that.

Edit: And I'd just call the first time around, the possibility of getting shoved on by a hand with which you're chopping, combined with the slim chance that you're beat here, outweighs the value of hoping the guy will make a terrible call with worse.

Last edited by Todd Terry; 06-06-2008 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:40 PM   #38
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Re: WSOP 2k NL Rivered Straight spot

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Disagree, I have never seen an old person overcall with QQ in this or similar spots in a live tournament, ever.
Todd--

?????!!!!!!!!!!????????!!!!!!!!!!

All my best,

--Nate
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:46 PM   #39
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Re: WSOP 2k NL Rivered Straight spot

^^ He was the 4th caller of a middle position openraise, and he's in the SB. He's making a huge raise with QQ 100% of the time in my experience, I'm willing to tone it down to 97% because I haven't played enough live tourneys to pretend that I've seen everything, but really I'd be shocked if an old guy showed up with QQ here ever given preflop.
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:27 PM   #40
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Re: WSOP 2k NL Rivered Straight spot

Todd--

Weird. That's not my experience.

I think this is a monster far too often for Bond to call.

All my best,

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