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04-19-2012 , 08:59 PM
folding either time seems crazy
04-20-2012 , 12:39 AM
People still saying fold first must not have read the in-depth description of the sb from a player who was in the actual hand. Sounds like he was OI.

And I don't think it's possible to justify a fold after that.
04-23-2012 , 04:30 PM
Happy I posted this considering how a lot of respected members seem to be giving different answers. If anyone is curious about the results, lmk.
04-23-2012 , 05:09 PM
Think about how many chips you get in behind Tim's get it in range and how many chips you lose to Martin when he flats and/or four-bets, and the frequency of that occurring, not just how many chips you win in the best case scenario when it goes call/fold/fold. Todd's math suggests that one of those two has a hand they're going with almost 65% of the time. When it's Martin, we're very often losing the 20-something BBs we put in the pot without realizing our equity. It's pretty hard for us to be far enough ahead of the SB's range to make up for that.
04-23-2012 , 05:38 PM
I would fold the first time (for the reasons NSB and TFT posted) and call the 2nd time. Martin realizes how strong your flats look so it's not like he is going to 5bet JJ and he might not even 5bet QQ so you just have to hope you can see 5 cards and scoop this giant pot where you are getting great odds.
04-23-2012 , 09:02 PM
just post results itt imo
04-23-2012 , 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714
I would fold the first time (for the reasons NSB and TFT posted) and call the 2nd time. Martin realizes how strong your flats look so it's not like he is going to 5bet JJ and he might not even 5bet QQ so you just have to hope you can see 5 cards and scoop this giant pot where you are getting great odds.
Only hand I'd 5b in Martin's spot is KK.
04-23-2012 , 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714
I would fold the first time (for the reasons NSB and TFT posted) and call the 2nd time. Martin realizes how strong your flats look so it's not like he is going to 5bet JJ and he might not even 5bet QQ so you just have to hope you can see 5 cards and scoop this giant pot where you are getting great odds.
Yeh, agree easy fold initially. Easy flat to the reraise.
04-24-2012 , 04:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
Think about how many chips you get in behind Tim's get it in range and how many chips you lose to Martin when he flats and/or four-bets, and the frequency of that occurring, not just how many chips you win in the best case scenario when it goes call/fold/fold. Todd's math suggests that one of those two has a hand they're going with almost 65% of the time. When it's Martin, we're very often losing the 20-something BBs we put in the pot without realizing our equity. It's pretty hard for us to be far enough ahead of the SB's range to make up for that.
thanks for your in depth analysis
04-24-2012 , 04:53 AM
As for the results:

Thinking objectively, shoving because he will fold JJ & maybe QQ to my iso of Tim's shove is definitely the best option given the insane price I was getting. Instead I just folded in the moment worried about Martin having me beat. But the funny thing is even if I am beat, shove, and get called by Martin I'm still getting an insane price on my money. It does seem that folding the first time is the best option but as played it's a clear shove in my spot.

So I fold, Martin thinks for a bit & then he folds which was shocking to me. Tim flips over QQ which I was surprised to see because of the small charade he put on before shoving but was more than fine. The initial squeezer had KQdd. QQ holds but the flop was obviously a ten! After the hand Martin said he had JJ which I would've fist pumped gotten it in in his spot.
04-24-2012 , 08:07 AM
I think shoving is better than flatting, as AK and JJ will have a difficult time calling a solid players ISO shove like that, and flatting just brings about some other possible unpleasant variations which I would rather not deal with.

I am not sure why "he has no 4b range here"...I think he should have no flat range really.

But wtf do I know....I play on lock one day a week.
09-20-2013 , 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlandfox
Some Swedes just think JJ is the nuts, Martin Jacobson is not among them.
Looks like I was a bit off on this part of the analysis.


PokerStars Hand #104189142461: Tournament #2013090023, $10000+$300 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (600/1200) - 2013/09/16 6:46:03 IST [2013/09/15 21:16:03 ET]
Table '2013090023 4' 8-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: wizowizo (79331 in chips)
Seat 2: T 54 T 97s (165910 in chips)
Seat 3: V. Wahlbeck (37691 in chips)
Seat 4: OLD TIME GIN (96412 in chips)
Seat 5: snipersvd78 (77648 in chips)
Seat 6: wwwBTHEREcom (68302 in chips)
Seat 7: Kroko-dill (81356 in chips)
Seat 8: M.nosbocaJ (182902 in chips)
wizowizo: posts the ante 150
T 54 T 97s: posts the ante 150
V. Wahlbeck: posts the ante 150
OLD TIME GIN: posts the ante 150
snipersvd78: posts the ante 150
wwwBTHEREcom: posts the ante 150
Kroko-dill: posts the ante 150
M.nosbocaJ: posts the ante 150
OLD TIME GIN: posts small blind 600
snipersvd78: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
wwwBTHEREcom: folds
Kroko-dill: folds
M.nosbocaJ: raises 1560 to 2760
wizowizo: raises 5040 to 7800
T 54 T 97s: raises 10210 to 18010
V. Wahlbeck: folds
OLD TIME GIN: folds
snipersvd78: folds
M.nosbocaJ: raises 19210 to 37220
wizowizo: folds
T 54 T 97s: raises 128540 to 165760 and is all-in
M.nosbocaJ: calls 128540
*** FLOP *** [8d Jd Qc]
*** TURN *** [8d Jd Qc] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [8d Jd Qc 8c] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
M.nosbocaJ: shows [Jc Js] (a full house, Jacks full of Eights)
T 54 T 97s: shows [As Ac] (two pair, Aces and Eights)
M.nosbocaJ collected 342320 from pot
T 54 T 97s finished the tournament in 62nd place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 342320 | Rake 0
Board [8d Jd Qc 8c 2d]
Seat 1: wizowizo folded before Flop
Seat 2: T 54 T 97s showed [As Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 3: V. Wahlbeck (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: OLD TIME GIN (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: snipersvd78 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: wwwBTHEREcom folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Kroko-dill folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: M.nosbocaJ showed [Jc Js] and won (342320) with a full house, Jacks full of Eights

Last edited by highlandfox; 09-20-2013 at 11:22 PM. Reason: typo
09-20-2013 , 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNGplayer24
wtf is tim finne doing is prob a good question as well....guess AA or an oddly played ace king!
It's called nittage to winnage, buddy.
12-15-2014 , 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastr
folding either time seems insane
Shocking that Mr. Seiver would ever advocate declining to fold.

Congrats to Martin.
12-15-2014 , 02:47 AM
zomg he flatted QQ with 40 bb before it was normal and made ppl do something idiotic and then they posted a thread about it. #WHATISHEQQING
12-15-2014 , 01:20 PM
timmy finne living life at the bottom of his range as usual. when will it end??
12-15-2014 , 01:53 PM
10 10 is literally the only hand in this spot that would confuse me as to what I should do. What a mess.
12-15-2014 , 09:50 PM
What was the bottom of your flatting range the first time Timmy? 8s or 9s/AJs/AQo?

I must be drunk because I feel like actually doing some math on this.
12-16-2014 , 12:36 AM
Did I get this wrong or did Jacobson food for 11k more into a huge pot where he does amazingly well vs ak
12-16-2014 , 04:24 AM
NSB I will lay 10 to 1 on the over of that being the bottom of his flatting range cuz Tim was nittage to winnage when we were all wearing diapers.
12-16-2014 , 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurSurveySays
Did I get this wrong or did Jacobson food for 11k more into a huge pot where he does amazingly well vs ak
# dont get it either maybe he figured roothlus had the same hand
12-16-2014 , 11:30 PM
Even if roothlus showed his hand face up and the other guy exposed a king I'd call
12-17-2014 , 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurSurveySays
Even if roothlus showed his hand face up and the other guy exposed a king I'd call
How many WSOP main events have you won again?
12-19-2014 , 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
What was the bottom of your flatting range the first time Timmy? 8s or 9s/AJs/AQo?

I must be drunk because I feel like actually doing some math on this.
Prob 88, AJs, AQ.
12-20-2014 , 03:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlandfox
Prob 88, AJs, AQ.
It's too late, I'm sober now.

      
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