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UTG hand from Millionaire Maker w/ AJo UTG hand from Millionaire Maker w/ AJo

06-15-2016 , 04:58 PM
Mods if milly isn't High Stakes feel free to move.

In before "if you don't know the answer you shouldn't be playing $1500's".

Level 6 of the Millionaire Maker flight 1B (so no re-entry left). Blinds are 200-400 50ante. Probably 10 min before dinner break where coming back blinds are 300-600-50.

Relevant history. Hero is late (very late *cough*) 30's, quite the handsome devil like a dashing businessman recreational type. Probably perceived as very ABC but has the ability to add some D and E moves in on occasion. Villain is probably early 40s, seems solid, hasn't gotten out of line too much. Strikes me as a circuit reg type, or maybe just a Vegas local who plays well. Only relevant hand between hero and villain, hero defended BB to a villain CO raise one level ago with 54s, flopped a wheel, and check raised a continuation bet. Villain folded what he claimed was a weak A.

Hero ran 7500 to 20000 in the first few levels, doubled a 5k stack with AQ losing to AJ, lost a couple of other small ones, and then worked back to 13k or so before doubling a 5k stack again with QQ vs KJ. So hero is probably perceived as perhaps frustrated, although no outbursts or anything.

(This is probably more background than necessary but I haven't posted a hand n a while so this is fun)

Second hand after the QQ loss, so hero has about 8k. Hero picks up AJo UTG. (fold, raise, jam?). Table had been relatively tight behind hero, so opened to 1k UTG. Folds around to villain on button who 3-bets to 3200. Hero tanks for a bit and villain says something along the lines of "I've got something good, I'll call" or something along those lines. Also says he will show regardless of what happens.

Hero ? Besides unreg pre. Thought process was essentially shoving vs. folding, didn't see any scenario where calling was good.
06-15-2016 , 05:07 PM
Fold now without much thought and don't level yourself in future spots.

Open is pretty mandatory. But so is folding now most of the time.
06-15-2016 , 05:24 PM
I think this is a spot where you can fold comfortably. You have to think if you are UTG, this guy is going to have TT+ at a minimum. His range has you beat, you can find a better spot.
06-15-2016 , 06:35 PM
Easy fold
06-16-2016 , 03:58 AM
Yeah lay it down and wait for another spot, you didn't lose much from the standard raise. I guess when you play UTG with weakish hands you should be able to get away from them fairly easy when you encounter strong(ish) play like this.
06-16-2016 , 10:06 AM
U could just not even open as well
06-16-2016 , 10:27 AM
with antes you can open AJo here UTG, but it's not outrageous to fold. if you are truly perceived as a steamy ABC player then people may take this opportunity to raise you light and put you in the cage, especially at your stack size.

once we get 3b we can comfortably fold.

as a side note V raise size is pretty poor making it 3.2k when you only have an 8k stack. i guess this would make it more likely he has a strong hand rather than say an Ax suited bluff.
06-16-2016 , 10:52 AM
you must have played at least one other hand that was more interesting than this one?
06-16-2016 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebet33
U could just not even open as well
Yeah, I considered this. One of the blinds was pretty short though, like 2k left, so felt too tight to fold if it folded around to him and he shoved.
06-16-2016 , 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrsport1015
with antes you can open AJo here UTG, but it's not outrageous to fold. if you are truly perceived as a steamy ABC player then people may take this opportunity to raise you light and put you in the cage, especially at your stack size.

once we get 3b we can comfortably fold.

as a side note V raise size is pretty poor making it 3.2k when you only have an 8k stack. i guess this would make it more likely he has a strong hand rather than say an Ax suited bluff.
Thanks all for the feedback. I don't get to play much these days, and am rusty on some of the math calc real time, so appreciate the sanity check.

I don't think anyone would think I was steaming per se, just that I had taken a couple of rough beats that kept crippling me.

I agree that the villain sizing was weird. That is part of what made me pause, the combo of the sizing, along with the table talk. I didn't think AA-QQ was in his range since I think he'd either 3-bet smaller, or even just shove. Figured JJ is reduced since I have a blocker.

Anyway, I folded and villain showed TT.
06-16-2016 , 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson
you must have played at least one other hand that was more interesting than this one?
Haha, fair enough. Hmmm, let's see. How about this one?

100-200 25, 15k-ish effective and I think I covered V. V is a young guy, figured internet player or live tourney reg type. Seemed a little steamy when he sat down at our table earlier in the level.

Folded to me in the HJ, I open A9s to 500. He 3-bets to 1500 on the button. I thought his range was pretty wide here and read as very iso-y so I called.

Flop AJJ with two diamonds, I check-called 1600. Turn J, check-check. River K and I check. ? Good spot or bad spot to try to induce a bet here?
06-16-2016 , 03:04 PM
I wouldn't open jam any hands
u played it fine (with special reads you could jam)

the other hand a9 looks fine, you should check some of the time with ax. maybe bet small if you look like a businessman like u mentioned since you may be perceived to have more random flush draws
kinda tough to get called by worse when u bet big and you probably don't want to bluff big anyway (both in practice and theoretically)
06-16-2016 , 04:36 PM
re: A9s, yeah checking and betting smallish are both fine. if you bet small he might call KQ/KT figuring you can have a few f draws, and if you check he might vbet those same hands. it's not really a spot to "induce" though, the board doesn't really change much and he can't really rep anything after checking turn, so if you feel like he's tilty maybe bet>check to get a frustration call.
06-16-2016 , 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson
re: A9s, yeah checking and betting smallish are both fine. if you bet small he might call KQ/KT figuring you can have a few f draws, and if you check he might vbet those same hands. it's not really a spot to "induce" though, the board doesn't really change much and he can't really rep anything after checking turn, so if you feel like he's tilty maybe bet>check to get a frustration call.
Yeah, induce is probably too much to hope for. In hindsight I think a bet of 1k-1.5k is going to get a lookup call a lot. Got a little greedy hoping he'd bet 2-3k.

Villain checked back and claimed straight (didn't show). After he saw my hand he berated me for my PF call with A9s, and the CO next to me snap jumped in and said "well, you 3-bet him with QT".
06-16-2016 , 08:07 PM
I would fold AJo utg in this spot, of course I'm a bit of a nit
06-17-2016 , 09:59 AM
he's an idiot for berate regardless of your play
06-17-2016 , 12:56 PM
Yea agree with most, just fold AJ. Remember in WSOP events blinds go from 200-400/50 to 250-500/50 (not 300-600), so no rush to get 8k in
06-18-2016 , 12:48 AM
Chris Mooreman says AJ In middle position is a fold and typically does not flop well (from his book)

I doubt limping could be too bad, but is still prob behind in most cases if it gets raised around the table and you are out of position post flop.
06-20-2016 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolanfan34
Thanks all for the feedback. I don't get to play much these days, and am rusty on some of the math calc real time, so appreciate the sanity check.

I don't think anyone would think I was steaming per se, just that I had taken a couple of rough beats that kept crippling me.

I agree that the villain sizing was weird. That is part of what made me pause, the combo of the sizing, along with the table talk. I didn't think AA-QQ was in his range since I think he'd either 3-bet smaller, or even just shove. Figured JJ is reduced since I have a blocker.

Anyway, I folded and villain showed TT.
I dont see the Vs pre flop bet sizing as odd at all. It states "you are going to commit yourself to this hand". He's looking at your stack, not his.

Frankly I like his play and the chatter...

The release is automatic after being 3b. The open is debatable... I probably would have opened for a raise if I decided to play that hand. At that point, TT is only calling and it's an easy fold if he raises.

But then again, you lose more money that way. No way I'm limping with that hand tho. It's either a raise or fold for the way I play. But then again, I'm not on TV. Lol...
06-20-2016 , 03:23 PM
It's outrageous to fold this Utg unless you have a terrible image or some nuts at your table.
06-21-2016 , 02:29 PM
lol ^
06-22-2016 , 10:24 AM
Out of all the responses not one person posted the fact that day 1 of the Milly is 10 handed.
This is huge, it changes a lot and makes AJo UTG an even worse hand. Yes, I understand that there are antes, but with 20 bb's and a hand UTG that plays poorly 10 handed... I think the optimal play is to fold Pre and conserve your 3 bet shove stack.

As played the fold after getting 3 Bet is pretty easy. Live unless there is some history or certain table dynamics, players are likely to tighten their 3 Bet range vs the UTG raise (especially ten handed).
06-22-2016 , 04:50 PM
Folding pre
06-23-2016 , 07:15 PM
Def should be folding here, especially with WSOP structure. If I'm raising I would just min raise to 800, if you say the blinds are super short it is unlikely they will flat anyways and you'll have to call their flop jams almost always regardless of opening to 1k or 800.

I think with 20 BBs utg in a well structured tournament, my opening range would be basically AQ+,88+. Sure, this is tight, but it's not very exploitable because it has enough nutted hands in it that it can't be 3B light or even bluffed against very often post flop.
06-24-2016 , 12:53 AM
Good additional conversation. Thanks all. I play pretty tight so was trying to expand my range a bit in EP to not be so readable, but agree this is a bad spot due to factors mentioned.

      
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