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Old 01-31-2009, 01:53 PM   #1
tufat23
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two apt manila hands

hand 1

no previous history, i think hes been opening wide but hes been super short and ran like God for two doubles.
my image is strong, unknown, only hand ive shown is a rejam of an iso jam with AKs and won.

300/600/75

nam le has like 22k, i have 30k. nam opens utg 1.7k 8-handed (suepr nits behind me, one dude has like 3k) i flat two behind with 88. hu to flop

flop 954dd.
check, i bet 2.6k, nam calls.

turn 5o.
check check.

river 6o
nam bets 4.5k, i?


what do u like pre, 3-bet fold? i'm severely doubting he jams worse but at the same time I think his continue range is so small I can probably just go ahead and 3-bet like atc? bet turn? river is an autocall given line?




hand 2

500/1k/100

nam le has like 90k, chino reem about 45k i have 15k.

nams been opening out of control wide, but chinos been playing super super tight vs him, i actually cant remember him flatting nam and certainly no 3-bets to the extent that you could say he was softplaying him cos really there were too many spots where he should have been playing back. (especially since he was trying vs everyone else)

my image is super super nitty, I blinded down for over 2 levels now, literally played zero hands.

nam opens hijack -1 for 3k, chino flats directly behind, my jamming range is ...? (bb is so tight hes 100% fodling AQ no questions and AK some %)

Last edited by tufat23; 01-31-2009 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:43 PM   #2
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Re: two apt manila hands

Not sure on hand two, but I think hand one is closer to a fold pre than a 3bet though I guess flatting is ok. I like your line if you folded river. Just seems like you beat absolutely nothing. Maybe 77 valueowning himself but he doesn't seem like the type to c/c flop and then bet river with this type of hand, and it's literally the only hand he could have anyway.
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:49 PM   #3
LorenB
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Re: two apt manila hands

In hand 1, since villian has been opening wide (from EP too?) I like your line and I think you have to call river given AK-A10 may try to bluff here thinking you may have AK-AJ and won't call. Remember, This is IF villian is opening wide here. If he isn't and you still played, fold river.
-If villian has not been too aggressive from EP/utg I think I can just lay this down PRE. Because you are prob. behind his range and since you're in EP also and aren't gtd position and being heads up.

In hand 2, I like a squeeze shove here given the position of raises and reads. Will Reem flat AK, QQ+ here? If not, obviously easy shove. Otherewise, its close.
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:11 PM   #4
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Re: two apt manila hands

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Originally Posted by LorenB View Post
In hand 1, since villian has been opening wide (from EP too?) I like your line and I think you have to call river given AK-A10 may try to bluff here thinking you may have AK-AJ and won't call. Remember, This is IF villian is opening wide here. If he isn't and you still played, fold river.
-If villian has not been too aggressive from EP/utg I think I can just lay this down PRE. Because you are prob. behind his range and since you're in EP also and aren't gtd position and being heads up.

In hand 2, I like a squeeze shove here given the position of raises and reads. Will Reem flat AK, QQ+ here? If not, obviously easy shove. Otherewise, its close.

how can you say its a shove when he didn't say what he had? unless you're saying shove ATC which is def wrong regardless of if chino is flatting huge or not.

Hand 2 I think I shove 88(maybe 77)+ AJo+, KQs, and ATs?

hand 1 is really annoying bcuz 77 really is all you beat and if he wanted to bluff in this hand why would he start by C/C flop? Haven't played with Nam tho so I really don't know for sure.
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:30 PM   #5
Todd Terry
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Re: two apt manila hands

I guess when you travel halfway around the world everything gets turned upside down and Nam is playing super-LAG while tufat has a nitty image.

Hand 1 I fold pre. As played I really don't know, I think it's pretty close.

Hand 2 I'm jamming pretty wide, at least {22+, A2s+, A8o+, KTs+, KJo+, Q9s+, QJo, J9s+, T9s}.
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:02 PM   #6
LorenB
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Re: two apt manila hands

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Originally Posted by DFish View Post
how can you say its a shove when he didn't say what he had? unless you're saying shove ATC which is def wrong regardless of if chino is flatting huge or not.

Hand 2 I think I shove 88(maybe 77)+ AJo+, KQs, and ATs?

hand 1 is really annoying bcuz 77 really is all you beat and if he wanted to bluff in this hand why would he start by C/C flop? Haven't played with Nam tho so I really don't know for sure.
Sorry, I thought OP said he had AQo in hand 2...
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:31 PM   #7
DFish
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Re: two apt manila hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry View Post
I guess when you travel halfway around the world everything gets turned upside down and Nam is playing super-LAG while tufat has a nitty image.

Hand 1 I fold pre. As played I really don't know, I think it's pretty close.

Hand 2 I'm jamming pretty wide, at least {22+, A2s+, A8o+, KTs+, KJo+, Q9s+, QJo, J9s+, T9s}.
wow guess im a nit i just didnt think chino's flatting range would be folding to a 15bb squeeze that often, guess i was way off?
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Old 02-01-2009, 03:07 AM   #8
tufat23
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Re: two apt manila hands

the thing about hand 1 that doesnt make sense, is how is he srsly ever check/calling 2 overcards vs what i look like. this is apt manila so most of the field is azn and theres def a few rando azn kids (altho most were clearly from japan, which i am also clearly not from). i mean unless he knows who i am it really doesnt make sense because i should just be some random kid thats satellited in (i wasnt wearing any logos tho). so how does he ever check/call any time he has 2 overcards, any two diamonds, and high 1 card diamond, any over pair, any pair itself. in fact so much of what he should have shouldnt check call here i was a little wtf so my turn plan was to check behind and call absolutely every river card unless he overbet shoves or something.


hand 2 im still not sure about. i think todd terrys a little wide here, but at the same time I felt like nams folding over 85% of the time just not sure what chinos flatting with since hes srsly been softplaying the hell out of nam. nam opened like 97% when folded to (and it happened a lot since super nits were between him and me) and chino flatted/3-bet exactly 0 times, yet probably vpiped like 30% when someone else opened the pot.
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Old 02-01-2009, 09:17 AM   #9
Todd Terry
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Re: two apt manila hands

Hand 1 I don't know why Nam can't have 2 diamonds in his range some of the time. He could also pot control an overpair OTF, that's a very wet board.

Hand 2:

1. I really think Chino's range is very weak, I'd expect him to 3bet most strong hands against a HJ open. Although I don't know what to make of his seeming unwillingness to play against Nam.

2. The only time I ever played with Chino he opened a ton of hands and I kept jamming on him. He kept threatening to call, but only did when he had AK.

3. Tufat has a very tight image, which means he should be shoving wider than someone with a looser image because he has more FE as a result of his image and thus needs less equity if called to be +cEV.
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Old 02-01-2009, 04:01 PM   #10
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Re: two apt manila hands

notice that the APT in press releases suggested a guaranteed $1million and in actual fact the prize pool was only $600kish. Pretty disapointing that the $1million wasnt guaranteed as it damages the credibility of the event.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:03 PM   #11
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Re: two apt manila hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry View Post
I guess when you travel halfway around the world everything gets turned upside down and Nam is playing super-LAG while tufat has a nitty image.

Hand 1 I fold pre. As played I really don't know, I think it's pretty close.

Hand 2 I'm jamming pretty wide, at least {22+, A2s+, A8o+, KTs+, KJo+, Q9s+, QJo, J9s+, T9s}.
for someone with a lot of tournament leaks, can u explain why hand 1 is a fold pre-flop?
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