Sunday Supersonic FT Spot - Page 2 - High Stakes MTT Strategy

tunafishtank · 08-13-2012, 02:33 PM

Mmm this is a pretty obvious jam.... I don't understand any other possible explanation for this spot. I mean the stop and go seems like a reasonable line but otherwise this is very standard. If you fold for icm reasons you won't get anywhere anyways since you're so short. Take the equity and fist pump it in here...

aseHigh · 08-13-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunafishtank

Mmm this is a pretty obvious jam.... I don't understand any other possible explanation for this spot. I mean the stop and go seems like a reasonable line but otherwise this is very standard. If you fold for icm reasons you won't get anywhere anyways since you're so short. Take the equity and fist pump it in here...

we're trying to gain any kind of FE, nobody mentioned folding here

busto_soon · 08-13-2012, 07:35 PM

we can never c/f the flop but Villain might fold some flops that are good for us.. so ship>flat pre

Shane Gamble · 08-13-2012, 10:37 PM

call is best by a dece margin but could see myself shoving mindlessly in-game especially if i had a lot of other tables going on

Gaszzzz · 08-14-2012, 03:07 AM

I would just ship it, calling seems too weird at 8 bb

TheNewf · 08-14-2012, 12:33 PM

I'd put it in pre, we just have too much equity vs his range/what busto_soon said. Unless you can soulread that his sizing is always nutted but no good reason to think so from theory pov

LOL12345 · 08-14-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReversedAngleShot

How much does a money jump(s) mean for you?
Not much: shove and take on ur running shoes.
Much: shove and take on ur running shoes for chiplead and ship this b1tch

Love it!

**iggymcfly** · 08-14-2012, 05:10 PM

FWIW, if we shove pre, villain won't be quite getting 2:1 so it's at least possible we could get folds from hands like J8 that have decent equity. Just something to think about.

Paklu · 08-16-2012, 05:57 AM

Again from a villains point of view if this hand is close to the worst hand we go broke here be it with shove or call/get it in most flops, villain should minbet ATC and then shove might have FE preflop.

With the possibility of CO being very wide I would call-shove most flops at least with QJs and KJs as well. I also would think twice before calling donkpush on most flops with A-high 1 overcard, because calling would only be good against modern type of stop-n'-go play and hand would be huge dog to both fishes "call flop to hit" and oldschool stop-n'-go with small pair to gain FE.

08-16-2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by busto_soon

we can never c/f the flop but Villain might fold some flops that are good for us.. so ship>flat pre

A23hhh/789hhh? we can't c/f?

EagleEYE19 · 08-16-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

FWIW, if we shove pre, villain won't be quite getting 2:1 so it's at least possible we could get folds from hands like J8 that have decent equity. Just something to think about.

I wouldn't count on it. He could be min raising to fold against the BTNs shove or to induce a BTN shove but either way he is happy to get it in against SB/BB.

I can definitley see him r/c hands like KJ against SB/BB and r/f it against the BTN because of the stack sizes at the table.

So shove.

betgo · 08-16-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Haris

A23hhh/789hhh? we can't c/f?

I would call but fold a decent percentage of flops. You make a pair or reasonable draw on like half the flops. Definitely shoving low flops with a bdfd. I don't mind c/fing A high and middle card flops with no bdfd or other draw and 3-flush flops where we do not connect at all. It's only 1xBB, so I don't mind folding reasonably often.

DudeImBetter · 08-17-2012, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevepa

in that thread I think I assumed we never open jam. In game I'd probably jam both those flops, though it's close and maybe check/calling them is better. It's easy to want to jam them because check/calling feels completely stupid, but I doubt anyone ever folds ace high on either of them so you may as well let him put in the rest with their hands worse than KQ. If there's a chance your opponent is an idiot then jam for sure though.

I think the main problem with calling is that it's easy to screw it up postflop, so you just need to err on the side of check/let him jam and call it off. When you start jamming flops and having him fold his K8s or Q8s or whatever you might start throwing away too much cEV to the point where shoving is better.

Also as a disclaimer I've done very little math on these spots (literally nothing other than what's in that thread I made) so I'm pretty much just guessing.

This concept is golden; hadn't in spots like this ever considered the call pre w/ intention to c/c missed flops, but vs thinking villains it makes complete sense for reason you stated. Will try to incorporate this into my game.

PokerKaiser · 08-18-2012, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggymcfly

FWIW, if we shove pre, villain won't be quite getting 2:1 so it's at least possible we could get folds from hands like J8 that have decent equity. Just something to think about.

With the Supersonic big antes he is actually getting better than 2:1... So I don't think he is ever folding. I'm not a big fan of the Stop and Go but this could be a good spot to do it.

Twistedd · 08-30-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevepa

in that thread I think I assumed we never open jam. In game I'd probably jam both those flops, though it's close and maybe check/calling them is better. It's easy to want to jam them because check/calling feels completely stupid, but I doubt anyone ever folds ace high on either of them so you may as well let him put in the rest with their hands worse than KQ. If there's a chance your opponent is an idiot then jam for sure though.

I think the main problem with calling is that it's easy to screw it up postflop, so you just need to err on the side of check/let him jam and call it off. When you start jamming flops and having him fold his K8s or Q8s or whatever you might start throwing away too much cEV to the point where shoving is better.

Also as a disclaimer I've done very little math on these spots (literally nothing other than what's in that thread I made) so I'm pretty much just guessing.

Nvm