I'm glad someone finally said it. I didn't want to say it. I wanted to see if pghfan might be able to come to that realization on his own.

+1. Even though its kind of obvious, its def best to c/r with hands that have more than 8% equity when called.

Look, I said it several times in this thread. We can't assess the ev of 3betting here based on the information available. I can 3bet because I won't **** up. If OP is a random then he should just fold. I don't know who the OP is, he might be ****ing Gboro for all I know.

Just wanted to add that the river looks like a clear call to me. lol results

I just wanna say that if the bb had an equivalent stack to hero here and he's an unknown I'd almost always not fold. As is I still don't think it's a clear fold (although I certainly would fold plenty) and all of you who think it is are wrong.

first of all with much due respect to mement_mori, I don't think flatting is wrong, pp's have more implied odds than draws, since they can hit directly on the flop where it's reallly tough to see them, so i don't think flatting is wrong at all it's just you better have a plan since the BB is short, do you want to flip/worse with him?

your pair also has some post flop equity since he will have a draw more often than a pair, and you will win some number of flops, but if your pf plan is to set mine and fold any flop not containing a 2, then you will probably be folding the best hand way too often to make it profitable, and even if you do hit your set you better not give him a free roll by checking the turn as in the above hand

so if you are just flatting for set mining purposes against a player of this caliber you might as well just go ahead and fold since i doubt there is much difference in ev and certainly -ev if you play the hand poorly (sorry OP), and why risk a good portion of your stack on 2s if the bb shoves coz you'd have to call if it went HU

also, lol at 3betting...doubt anyone here has the balls to do it and it's not necessary anyway and certainly less profitable than flatting or folding

Ya, but does your postflop plan include some leading / c/r bluffing or is it

FLOP SETS AND WIN, PUSSIES!

I'm just wondering, sketchy1 is on some huge ass heater and I'm thinking of retooling my MTT game to include more of flopping sets and winning and less aggression

Clearly I'm gonna try to steal some pots when I don't flop a set. But that's just one reason of many for why calling is probably fine.

Clearly, calling only planning on continuing when you flop your set is terrible which is all that Mickey was saying and he's obviously right.

I kinda don't think that's what he's saying. I also think that if it's a mistake to only continue when you flop a set, it's not nearly as big of one as everyone seems to think. And finally, I'd never thought I'd say this, but Betgo's posts itt are more accurate than Mements.

w/e i didn't read most of it anyway, obv it isn't that bad. If it were that bad, negreanu wouldn't win every tourney obv. its still bad, and the idea of setmining n flopping sets n winning is just hilarious because ape had 58s zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

god you guys are all so dumb

so much writing... so much BS... aaamagad tilted by reading this sh*t

and btw, gl playing this and show profit
playing ur 22 oop vs a superman without nailing ur set.
Souldreading boards, beeing a hero, and outplaying him etc etc. GLGL

Given the depth that this hand is being played, and against a quality opponent such as villain is, how often is a check/raise going to be called? very rarely, i would suggest. Therefore, your argument is invalid.

I mean, we all love to check/raise when we flop flush draws and overs, but sometimes you gotta win pots when you have less than 50% equity.

Lots of good arguments ITT. After reading the all the posts and thinking over the hand im gonna side with fold PF, and the deciding factor is that its the million... and not the 100r. People arguing that we can c/r or float certain boards and steal pots, etc are failing to quantify that doing that stuff OOP vs a good reg in such a such a soft field is by far and away not the best way to accumulate chips.

In the 100r I think Daniel Negranuing preflop and Hellzitoing postflop seems like an OK way to earn chips, but just unneccessary here.

Vanessa, can you please elaborate on this a bit? If we are in a cash game (say 100 bbs deep) and playing against typical cash game droolers why this is such a clear fold?

Oh, I think that if you're playing against a total drooler then you should be calling, definitely. But apestyles in a tourney is not really analogous to a cash game drooler, and it's a fold against a competent player for all the reasons Mement discussed. Also, I don't think the players typically in 5/10+ are bad enough to give you the right implied odds to call, but when you say "typical cash game droolers," maybe you're talking about lower stakes?

Yeah i usually play 2/5 , point taken. Just was unsure if for some reason it would be different in a cash game than a tournament, and was hoping for some mind blowing OG cash game schooling that would rock my world, but this answer makes sense and confirms what I thought, thanks.

I think set mining here against a random is ok but I would be inclined to call a much tighter range against a player of apes standard. Its the Million, there's surely going to be better spots to play pots rather than kicking ourselves when our value line with 22 doesn't go the way we planned because villain is a sicko who can soul read us for our bottom set.
A lot of the suggested lines in this thread still seem pretty strong IMO and to me highlight the difficulty of turning a profit with the call against this type of opponent.

raise the flop. bet big on the turn. river if he is still around check and fold if he moves all in when the spade hits, hopefully he folds the turn through.

Adam,
22 is very different from ATC here. If we give ape a flatting three bet range at all 22 plays much better than j3o or 34o or w/e if only for the times you flop a set can print money.

You seriously think Ape is bluff raising often enough against a percieved random, or anyone for that matter, for bluffcatching here to be OK? Or do you think Ape raises worse hands for value?
I think neither, and feel very strongly about it.

Other than that everything has been beaten to death in this thread. Hopefully everyone keeps trying to win pussies by flopping sets vs me in this spot.

FYP

Armzzz: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mlagoo [2c 2d]
elcoysa: folds
BoyArgentina: folds
stanman420: raises 95 to 145
Aguskb: folds
theNorfman: calls 145
Blue Knight1: folds
mlagoo: calls 145
lulopoker: folds
Armzzz: calls 95
*** FLOP *** [3c 2h 7c]
Armzzz: checks
stanman420: bets 300
theNorfman: folds
mlagoo: raises 661 to 961
Armzzz: folds
stanman420: raises 1729 to 2690 and is all-in
mlagoo: calls 1729
*** TURN *** [3c 2h 7c] [7s]
*** RIVER *** [3c 2h 7c 7s] [Tc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
stanman420: shows [Kd Kh] (two pair, Kings and Sevens)
mlagoo: shows [2c 2d] (a full house, Deuces full of Sevens)
mlagoo collected pussies from pot

Yeah and this

It took me a minute, but well played sir.