This is a hand from Level Three of the $1,100 LAPC Event #27. Sat down about an hour ago and quickly determined I was a big underdog. To my immediate right is Jeff Madsen, to his immediate right Jonathan Little, and to his immediate right Owen Crowe. The other players at the table seem competent as well, and I rank myself #5 or #6 out of six (there are three empty seats being blinded off as well--I'm a favorite over them at least).

The table has been very tough and aggressive. Crowe has been raising pre-flop about 60% of the hands and Little has been re-raising him quite a bit, met with a balanced mix of 4bets and folds from Crowe. Madsen has also been involved in several pots but has been more passive preflop, preferring instead to play more of a postflop game in position. My assessment is that these three are jockeying for the title of Alpha Dog and making money against them is not going to be easy. The only good news is they're all on my right.

I have been out of the line of fire, but soon hypothesize that waiting for strong hands and value betting them will not be a winning strategy versus this insane lineup. The big blind and player to his left have been very tight so far, watching the name players throw their chips around. My image is nitty/tight/scared of the famous pros, and I decide to try to find a spot to exploit that image.

I am looking for thoughts on this strategy in general and whether you think this is a good spot for such exploitation:

Blinds are 75/150. I am in the SB with the 43 Effective stacks are 15,000. Crowe raises to 350 from the hijack, Little calls in the cutoff, Madsen overcalls on the button. With 1,275 in the pot, I squeeze to 1,625.

Thoughts?

Not good.

(1) Attempt to stay out of these two's ways, let them battle it out.

(2) Try to use this to your advantage. Come at him big pre-flop, see if you can find a place where he is likely to walk away from it.

My thoughts on that hand? Hold onto your balls.

I wouldn't make that move either .. I think i'll prefer a call since one of the sharks mos def will play back at u cause' they see u as the nitty scared school boy .. - And it must be +ev to call with this sc since ur implied odds goes trough the rouf because of their aggression and alpha dawg battle post flop .. if i was to squeeze this spot i would do it with pp's, kjo a10o (and premium as well ofc) etc...

Squeezing preflop with a mediocre hand out of position against a bunch of guys who arent scared to see a flop is probably not a good idea.

Thanks for the reactions, guys. What adjustments do you all make when you feel outclassed like this? I am sure we all agree that waiting for the nuts and betting it isn't going to get me to the end of Day One with the chip lead, so how should I adjust? My thinking was higher variance, bigger pots, driving a wrench into their "smallball" strategy, since most top players don't like to play in large 3bet pots early in major events, true? If so, do we think the strategy is a good one but that this is a bad spot to employ it? Or do we have a better general plan for trying to climb this mountain? Again, thanks for taking the time to weigh in.

There is no problem trying to play big pots, but you can choose a range that flops better and has better equity against their calling range.

BOOOOO this hand can flop huge so just call and play the flop

Probably employ a check raise and underbetting pots strategy to induce raises against Madsen and Little. Not familiar with Crowe's game though.

So when are you gonna tell us stack sizes?

Play good and balanced. 43s is not an ideal 3betting hand from the SB against strong players who will see flops. In that specific situation it's an easy fold.

Best analogy I can think of is playing golf. You usually play an easy golf course but today you are playing TPC Sawgrass. You think the best way to adapt to this course is by learning how to hit a 60-degree wedge like Phil Mickelson when you are near the greens. What you *should* be doing to adapt is just playing ABC and keeping the ball out of trouble.

In OP? (15k effective)

But what did you think he had?

if you're outclassed just play tighter and play in position to make your postflop decisions easier, don't start doing crazy **** like this. The pots will be more inflated pre and your range will be further ahead of theirs on average (because they are playing fairly loose) so you are much better served just waiting for the best spots you can / waiting for the blinds to go up to increase the variance rather than inflating pots oop multiway with 4 high

hmm. 3betting decreases s : p ratio, which decreases stronger players positional advantage/# of decision points in the hand. instead of waiting for the blinds to go up, you can kind of force them up early.


You can hit the flop shot. Just open your stance, open the clubface, and move the ball forward in your stance. hold the club a little firmer in your left hand to prevent the clubface from turning over through impact. also, start the club outside on the way back. that should promote more of an out-to-in swing path that creates more of a glancing blow.

I dont remember the hand at all but I know if a guy I dont know is 3betting me from the blinds, I am going to call and try to flop something when multiway and when heads up, ill look to win pots that hit my range and miss the 3bettor's. Against three guys all doing the same thing, one of them will likely make something and not fold too often.

OP, you are best off 3betting in heads up situations preflop in position. Squeezing against a bunch of decent players out of position is not a good idea.

I disagree with everybody.

First of all, kudos on being self-aware enough to assess yourself relative to the table, very few people have that ability.

Second, how important is this tournament to you? If it's a big buyin and you play rarely, then just nit up, play straightforward and hope to run well. You'll minimize their edge over you and maximize your chances of survival and getting put into a better position later.

If you play regularly, then **** everything else and go to war with them, pay really close attention to hands, think about each hand really hard, think about your ranges and perceived ranges really hard, think about their ranges really hard, think about what's going on strategically, etc. and reflect on all of it later and use this as an opportunity to get better.

Being in position on people who are battling each other is like the most ludicrously profitable spot for a good poker player to be in. So many spots to cold-4, float, squeeze pre, squeeze post, put in like inf post flop raises, etc. There are so many weapons you can use absurdly profitably in this spot.

If you decide to go with the latter hand, then this spot seems perfect. On these stack sizes and dynamics, Little's range is totally capped when he flats pre, and opener has a wide range. Your hand is perfect for this, you can bang away when the board hits your perceived range, and you can bang away when the board hits your actual hand. You're gonna get 4bet super rarely, and you are gonna get called on flops too frequently, bet at on turns when you bet/check too frequently and are gonna get folds to 3 barrels way too much as well, so there are lots of spots that you should basically be able to rip apart super profitably with your hand and image.

this is an awesome way to start a post

all things being equal, with any sub-premium hands, i always wait until i'm in position to battle with the best players at the table........

~Slip

I guess one thing to possibly consider is how long you may be at this table (I know sometimes u can are which tables are being broken). If you can't tell or don't think it's likely u will be moved I suppose this is an okay spot, I guess u will have to apply a lot of pressure post flop as I would imagine u get 1-2 callers on average. But like u said u do have a nittyish image and they will probably be defending quite wide. Also this isn't a hand which is likely to put u in a lot of awkward spots as u will mostly brick a lot of flops (as opposed to like jts where u will make a lot more top pair type hands). All that said it probably would be much easier to wait for a spot in position but whatever, if you feel like making a move gotta make it somewhere I guess...

+1 to Goldenbears, people saying they'd want hands that draw better are missing the whole point of the 4b... It's a cold 4b, idea is that u don't have a hand

I don't mind the idea of a squeeze, but like has been said, let's try to find a spot to have better equity and in position. Cold 4b oop here with multiple (you said it) "tough" players, this is just putting us in a weird spot when we flop 56Kr, which is still a pretty good flop for us. You're making life tougher by cold 4b here (again, oop)... just nit up early IMO

Meh OOP this is marginal against good players who will be flatting and re-popping quite often

The only time you benefit from squeezing if you somehow flop a huge hand. Villains will almost never put you on 34s so you will win lots a chips.

However, the most likely situation is that say you flop nothing or say even if the flop comes A high or K high, which is likely to have hit your perceived range.. Odds are that at least you will get 1 call on the flop. Do you have the guts to barrel away from out of position on subsequent streets? Based on your OP, I don't think so and it's probably not a good idea anyways.

Just tighten up and play straightforward, when table gets insanely aggro, the best way to make money is to tighten up .. And let them barrel into you.

i think people harping on eq and position are missing a lot of the value of the play, which is the deception of your perceived range/capability.

if i think i'm playing against a tag opp when he's actually playing a lag style, he will be able to violate my assumptions until i adjust.