Level 7 or so: blinds $400/800. I have starting stack of $40k in bb and it is my first hand at a new table.

UTG +1 opens for $2k. 5 players flat and it gets to me in the BB.

Pot is now $15k and I have Q8dd in bb with 6 guys behind me to act if I raise.

Optimal spot to squeeze for my stack?!

I decided it was...thoughts ?

Nope

so you can call 1200 to win infinite with a good suited hand that plays pretyy decent multiway
or you can slam in your stack vs ep range with a hand that plays rly awful aipf
hrmmm :/

Any rationale?

What does my equity have to be versus original raisers range to be a profitable shove?

If I take down the pot pre my stack grows from 38-55k. Quite substantial

its prolly a slightly losing shove tbh. you do rly bad when called but youll find a win some times aipf. in random live 550s you can find some stupid guy will give away $

Your hand is way too good to bluff with.

Why do find a high variance play so sexy @ 50BBs with a good discount to flat & play poker?

Maybe your user id is a clue?

Q8dd does not play very well 7 ways....and I think the times the shove gets through and I increase my stack by 30%ish outweighs the times I get called and lose

Or this thread is a total troll based on a true event

no hand plays VERY well 7 ways, its 7 ways.... thats why the good lord invented pot odds and straight flushes though.

when god created RIO hands, on the first day he made Q8s

even before KJo he made Q8ss

call. have fun. find an honourable way to lose the lot.

fold > rip it, or similar > call

you are getting a gazillion to one with a pretty suited hand that flops well enough. just flat and play poker. and yeah there are rio and yeah we might face difficult decisions on later streets but that just doesn't justify ignoring the math behind calling pre.

You cant argue with math when u havent done any on this spot

Noone is arguing that calling makes money the question is whats the best move

This is a semibluff shove, not a 3-bet/fold play. If you want to bluff, you could raise to 10K and fold to a push. That is also a possible play with this hand. You could also make that play with QQ+.

You don't want to be pushing with a hand that doesn't have any value to flat with. The question is more whether it is too weak to shove with. If the push gets through most of the time, it is significantly cEV+.

Yeah, I meant more like a hand such as 65s might have the same or more equity vs a calling range of 99+/AQ+ or whatever you think they call with and be less playable 7way. Though I guess thinking about it more Q8 and 65 are kinda similar in value as 65 makes more/better straights but Q8 makes better flushes (but still not great) and better trips/2 pair.

Then again, I'd probably shove 0 hands for 50 biebers and just mostly call, r/f some of the best hands that aren't great calls and r/c some monsters. It's easily possible that a ship is very +EV one time, but if they call you light because they realise you'd raise smaller with something good it becomes really terrible really quickly. You are up against 6 hands, and stuff like 77-JJ/AQ might be in there and call you off. It's a spot that comes up so rarely that you might get away with it once in a while and it punishes them quite well if their ranges are too wide and they put you on something pretty strong.

No info on the stacks of the players who flatted. I can see a shove working about 25% of the time, depending on how deep the other players are. But if 2-3 of them have 15-20k only, just flat.


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I think this is still the reentry period at Parx, so definitely no with Q8s. Making this kind of shove light might work later in the tournament, and maybe at higher stakes. There are often a lot of people who want to see a flop, but are afraid to call off their stacks.

With so much in the pot, just shoving might be better than 3b/call or flat with some value hands, like AQ or even suited broadway or something like that. Again, though, I would prefer the play later in the tournament.