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| High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of high stakes MTT hands and techniques |
06-14-2012, 04:31 AM
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#1
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centurion
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 133
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Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
This might be a fairly standard question to some MTT players, but as a cash player I have no idea, and I was discussing it with a few good tournament players recently, and no one knew the answer. Everyone had a rough estimate, but the math is actually quite complicated to figure out, so I assume someone has a simulator or something.
Question: (as title states obviously): You're at a 9-handed MTT table. What is the odds that at least one of the opponents has TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AQ, or AK? Assume that no players have acted yet (this is relevant because if you're in CO or something and its folded to you, obviously no one has these hands).
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06-14-2012, 04:39 AM
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#2
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veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,419
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
Not sure if it's exactly the right answer but close enough: 220:1 to get dealt AA, 220:9 1 person gets dealt AA, multiply by 5 for TT-AA and by another 5.5 or so for AK/AQ, so seems to be close to half the time for somebody to get TT+/AQ+.
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06-14-2012, 04:44 AM
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#3
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,727
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
Odds somebody has a TT+: (4/52*3/51)*5
Odds somebody has AQ/AK: 2*(4/52*4/51*2)
Odds that no opponents has that = (1-((4*3/52/51)*5+(4/52*4/51*2*2)))^8 or 68.176%
Odds that at least one opponent has it = 31.824%
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06-14-2012, 04:45 AM
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#4
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 24,919
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
Really for probablity forum 4.7% that any one opponent has TT+/AQ+. The chances that on of 8 players has one of those hands is 1 - .953^8 = 32%. Now it is slightly higher, because if one doesn't have it, more likely others do as high cards are live. Also, you own hand could have blockers. In anycase, someone has a premium hand pretty often, so raising or pushbotting light from early position may not be good.
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06-14-2012, 05:19 PM
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#5
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banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Silver Spring
Posts: 13,998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soepgroente
Not sure if it's exactly the right answer but close enough: 220:1 to get dealt AA, 220:9 1 person gets dealt AA, multiply by 5 for TT-AA and by another 5.5 or so for AK/AQ, so seems to be close to half the time for somebody to get TT+/AQ+.
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pretty sure this is correct, that is why you can profitably open raise tens at a nine handed table but you will lose money raising a ten handed Tble with same hand
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06-14-2012, 07:21 PM
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#6
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veteran
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,085
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Wat
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06-14-2012, 08:56 PM
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#7
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centurion
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 133
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
I'm fairly certain its at least under 1/3, and that 1/2 is way too much.
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06-14-2012, 09:16 PM
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#8
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knows her Big Ten
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 你 妈 妈
Posts: 21,247
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinagambler
Odds somebody has a TT+: (4/52*3/51)*5
Odds somebody has AQ/AK: 2*(4/52*4/51*2)
Odds that no opponents has that = (1-((4*3/52/51)*5+(4/52*4/51*2*2)))^8 or 68.176%
Odds that at least one opponent has it = 31.824%
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QED
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06-14-2012, 09:40 PM
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#9
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 9,992
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealzeal
pretty sure this is correct, that is why you can profitably open raise tens at a nine handed table but you will lose money raising a ten handed Tble with same hand
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This might be the worst interpretation of probability in poker I've seen
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06-15-2012, 12:14 AM
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#10
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banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Silver Spring
Posts: 13,998
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
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06-15-2012, 01:09 AM
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#11
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enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 77
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
Quote:
Originally Posted by marek_heinz
This might be the worst interpretation of probability in poker I've seen
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I'd scrap the "in poker" bit of that statement
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06-15-2012, 10:47 AM
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#12
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: post less play more
Posts: 7,906
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
I really would like an answer to this question
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06-15-2012, 10:53 AM
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#13
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old hand
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: @locomistars
Posts: 1,204
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
Quote:
Originally Posted by marek_heinz
This might be the worst interpretation of probability in poker I've seen
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haha yeah I was sure it was a level
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorbread
I really would like an answer to this question
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then read betgo's answer
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06-15-2012, 01:50 PM
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#14
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 24,919
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
To get an exact answer, you would probably have to do a simulation, because the fact that several earlier players didn't have TT+/AQ+ makes it more likely a later one will. Also, it is more likely that someone has TT+/AQ+ if you have 77 than if you have AJ, because with AJ you have blockers.
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06-15-2012, 02:07 PM
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#15
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old hand
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: @locomistars
Posts: 1,204
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Re: Odds of AT LEAST 1 opponent having TT+ at 9 handed table
Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo
To get an exact answer, you would probably have to do a simulation, because the fact that several earlier players didn't have TT+/AQ+ makes it more likely a later one will. Also, it is more likely that someone has TT+/AQ+ if you have 77 than if you have AJ, because with AJ you have blockers.
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No I don't think so, at time #1 , when ur utg w/ 77 it is 1 - .953^8 = 32%.
But let's say ur mp with 5 behind and its folded to u the probability is slighty bigger than 1 - .953^5 = x
Last edited by locomi; 06-15-2012 at 02:10 PM.
Reason: I think
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