Originally Posted by canoodles
Not sure about pre, but as played I probably call.
pre is fine man jeez, certainly fine enough that theres 0 reason to mention it even if you'd rather fold it (personally I think open folding is horrendous but its irrelevant really)
Originally Posted by MrSmallie
Raise turn. As played, I guess call river.
V most likely has a 7 or T with good kicker or 2 pair. You're beat by an 8 sometimes, but it would pretty much have to be T8 or 78.
Agree with a turn raise, that card induces very few raises from the guys behind, u have any 2 pair blockers and the flop type makes it hard for anyone to be checking behind value hands otf when the pf raiser checks, the guy betting the turn is the only one who has an undefined range and all 3 of your ranges for getting to the turn are weak with the other 2 dolts being much weaker as you can still have some tricky induces, but it seems unlikely that you wouldnt cbet on a very wet board 4 way with value hands. BB would presumably always(or near always) lead value on the turn, its a board that will hit a bb peel range, and 4 way on a board that someone will be able to call a bet vast majority of the time he's less incentivized to bet air, so its a very clear raise for value, bettor doesnt have a big enough bluff range to get alot of value from stuff that folds to a turn raise but bets again on the river, and the 2 guys behind have an extremely small raising range on the turn.
However, I also disagree that he cant have alot of 8s that get to the river. 88 for example would be a great turn bet by villain, the ranges are so definedly weak that hes up against better than one pair very rarely, couple things get there on the turn but even way more draws. When you bet the turn you get value from draws and pairs and some combos of both, but you can also set up a river bet on scare cards, river c/c on blanks hu. This goes for any 8 he may have too as its a 1 card double gutty that could easily be bet vs weak ranges.
As for the river, you have pretty much a textbook bluffcatcher, you beat nothing that bets for value but almost everything that is bluffing or turning itself into a bluff, i probably call expecting to see a fair amount of 2 pairs or Tx turned into bluffs along with some whiffed flush draws, but i do think he'll have an 8 a good amount of the time, just not more than 70% or w/e