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| High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of high stakes MTT hands and techniques |
07-09-2012, 05:51 PM
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#1
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journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 271
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ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
Back from dinner break, playing 150/300/25. I have around 90k, and Villain has about 55k.
I open AhKd to 700 from MP, fish to my left flats, and Villain 3bets on the button to 2600. Villain is a thinking, somewhat LAGgy Russian, probably 1 of the only 2-3 players at the table capable of squeezing light. However, I don't think he's 3betting hands like 98s or whatever (call it a hunch, but I've seen him flat hands like that in other squeezable spots)... I'd put his 3betting range at almost any broadway and potentially any pocket pair.
Folds back to me, first decision, 4bet or flat? We're too deep to 4bet/get-it-in obviously, so if Villain 5bets, I think I have to fold? Not too much experience playing nearly 200bb deep 5bet pots... I decide to flat here, because I don't like the way 5bet/6bet dynamics play out (he knows I'm not a nit so my perceived 4bet range is probably like JJ+/AK/some-small-bluff-%). Fish folds.
Flop comes J65hhh, pot is 6525. I check (don't see any reason to lead), Villain cbets 2300, and I think we have a pretty straightforward check/raise here. I have a ton of potential flushes/sets in my range, though he can discount QQ+ a bit. I make it 5800 total, and Villain tanks for about 30 seconds before flatting.
Turn is a 9d, pot is now 18,125. What now?
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07-09-2012, 06:14 PM
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#2
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adept
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 914
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Re: ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
The range you have constructed is way off, "nobody" squeezes 22-TT in that spot. More like some broadways, and some hands not good enough to flat like Q5s or T9o or smtn like that (and obv value hands).
I think 4betting here is not really an option, u want the fish in, and u dont wanna get 5bet.
Flop check is standard, and raising or calling could go either way, I think I like raising best against this opponent. However your sizing with this stacks, is not really good on such a wet board, id make it 7k+.
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07-09-2012, 06:49 PM
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#3
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journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 271
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Re: ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarGar
The range you have constructed is way off, "nobody" squeezes 22-TT in that spot. More like some broadways, and some hands not good enough to flat like Q5s or T9o or smtn like that (and obv value hands).
I think 4betting here is not really an option, u want the fish in, and u dont wanna get 5bet.
Flop check is standard, and raising or calling could go either way, I think I like raising best against this opponent. However your sizing with this stacks, is not really good on such a wet board, id make it 7k+.
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I mean I agree about the light component of his range (the Q5s or T9o stuff you mentioned), but I think flatting especially 22-77 is pretty silly at this stack depth. Even if he gets 4bet, he's still getting odds to setmine (unless my 4bet sizing is like a full 3x or something)... just flatting means he's dealing with an SPR of of like ~18:1 on the flop, i.e. it's ****** impossible to get stacks in when he hits. I would say that a lot of people don't "squeeze" those hands (maybe squeeze is misleading, I use the term for any 3bet over an open and 1+ callers in between, but squeeze != only light/bluffy), but to say "nobody" does is pretty wrong I think.
Agree on flop sizing probably should be bigger.
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07-09-2012, 11:54 PM
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#4
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 25,027
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Re: ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
When we c/r the flop, are we pushing to a 3-bet?
I may be accused of taking a low variance approach, but I like c/c OTF. You may be ahead and have outs to the nuts. No need to build pot OOP. Think hand is easier to play if we improve or not this way.
Not crazy about getting flatted or 3-bet, so rather not c/r.
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07-10-2012, 12:24 AM
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#5
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: the nice hot tub
Posts: 6,655
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Re: ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
Easy 4bet
Easy barrel now
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07-10-2012, 03:26 AM
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#6
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veteran
Join Date: May 2009
Location: dog eat dog competition
Posts: 3,207
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Re: ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
yea what chuck said, but also like what betgo said about cc otf just cuz when u cr u pretty much have to fire at least once if not 2x more on alot of runouts
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07-10-2012, 03:29 AM
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#7
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veteran
Join Date: May 2009
Location: dog eat dog competition
Posts: 3,207
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Re: ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass
Easy 4bet
Easy barrel now
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do you 4b/f ? whats the next move if he comes back over (and i dont mean 4b/flat)
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07-10-2012, 04:12 AM
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#8
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 25,027
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Re: ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebet33
do you 4b/f ? whats the next move if he comes back over (and i dont mean 4b/flat)
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You have a good draw OTF. He obviously means 4-bet/call or maybe 4-bet push. You can't 4-bet/fold the draw.
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07-10-2012, 06:03 AM
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#9
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journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 271
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Re: ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
Ok, fair points, and yeah I considered c/c flop (seems like totally valid line, I guess I would sometimes check/call sometimes check/raise, not sure what %'s are for either, but meh).
Yup, feel like I have to fire the turn now given the line so far. Villain has about 46k behind on the turn... I make it 7350 into 18125. Villain tanks again for about 30 seconds, and basically min-raises to 16200.
Obvious call (and check/give-up river)? Reship for Villain's last 30k (think Villain is good enough to make a close fold on the turn, and we have a decent TAG image)? fwiw, I think Villain can find a fold with Jx/QQ-AA, but is never folding any set or any flush. I was pretty lost facing the turn raise (never folding, ofc)...
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07-10-2012, 10:39 PM
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#10
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Modding All Day
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Frazier >>>>> Chilly
Posts: 38,636
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Re: ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
c/r size is awful. Make it much bigger or call the flop
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07-14-2012, 07:05 AM
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#11
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journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 271
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Re: ME AKo OOP, 3bet spot
Well, I sorta stopped keeping up with this thread after busting day 2 myself, but results for no one in particular: I call the almost-min turn raise, river is a 6c, I tank check, and Villain makes a "I-give-up" check behind after about 5 sec. I announce "AK" and flip my hand, he mucks.
I'm trying to figure out if I backed myself into a not-terrible line with my too-small flop c/r that somehow induced an extra bluff raise from Villain on the turn, or if this was just plain dumb luck and we're just two random button clickers but I ran better. I guess Villain had AQ/KQ with a big heart, or total air (total air feels unlikely).
FWIW, 10 min after the hand, Villain asked me if I would have called a river bet with my AK-high, I told him I'd think about it but probably not, and he said he still thought I probably would.
Last edited by dumbluck13; 07-14-2012 at 07:16 AM.
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