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Old 12-17-2011, 04:21 AM   #26
kleath
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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Originally Posted by The Bear Jew View Post
in faraz's defense....if i was playing w/ 4 superstars i would want to open jam AA a nonzero % of the time....and might be optimal in some spots...

w/ joe tehan and vanessa rousso still left to act w/ heaps....its obviously an error to ship....but in heat of moment bubble of 20k mightve lost his mind.....idk why he would open jam why?????? did he see vanessas cards????
didnt want to give himself a chance to fold later in the hand
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:53 AM   #27
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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Why in gods name wouldnt you flat if that was your plan? Im not saying you cant decide after something happens, but that she chose the nut worst way to go about it, if you arent snapping tehan then its completely braindead
Iono maybe she didnt want AK to flat / get most of the money in now vs AK, who knows

Overall though its still a legitimate plan to put in 37% of your chips or whatever and decide the rest in a situation where theoretically players are gonna have really narrow ranges (her range theoretically for playing here is like TT+AKs or whatever, so Joe's range is theoretically like QQ+ or whatever) Again Tehan is a clown yadda yadda yadda.

Also I think she is calling tehan 100% of the time with QQ here, I think people are reading too much into her tanking.. there are plenty of players that like, will tank for 2 min even though they are going to call 100% or fold 100% or whatever.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:12 AM   #28
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

Munk & kleath win. I'd say Faraz's openjam is worse than Vanessa's tank job tho.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:31 AM   #29
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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Overall though its still a legitimate plan to put in 37% of your chips or whatever and decide the rest in a situation where theoretically players are gonna have really narrow ranges
No it really isnt, not when theres a much better option available that achieves the same purpose while risking less.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:41 AM   #30
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

It's not like there are an infinite number (or really large finite number) of preflop scenarios, where you can't take a look around the table and decide exactly what you are going to do in her spot. But I guess you can't legislate for 6 years of honing live reads.
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:17 AM   #31
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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No it really isnt, not when theres a much better option available that achieves the same purpose while risking less.
Thats true that maybe flat is better than minraise but what im saying is that minraising is better than straight jamming.
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:32 AM   #32
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

I'm gonna go ahead and just guess that Vanessa owned Joe and is owning everyone in this thread. She saw him being absurd and said hey if I click it back I'll put enough dead money out there that he'll just go for it. And then she trolled her tv interview and is laughing at everyone here. Since that's obv what happened, it's a pretty sick play.

As for Joe, it was obviously bad to do this with 42o but not as terrible as everyone thinks IMO. Not only does he free roll farazs dough when Vanessa folds, but more importantly, he usually triples up the shorty and now everyone is much bigger than 20BB on a 50k bubble and he has a giant stack to abuse that bubble. If Vanessa folds and Faraz triples, bubble prolly lasts over an hour, and Mr. 42o can chip up infinite.
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:50 AM   #33
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

Faraz shoved 17 bigs with AA, got two callers, but he screwed up...

Vanessa built a massive side pot that she had a 6:1 edge on, but she screwed up...

Tehan... okay, he really did screw up (although the move still has merit).

Two of them played their hands perfectly considering how much was in the middle vs. their respective EVs when the cards were flipped up.

To those of you suggesting otherwise, good luck with taking standard fish lines vs. pro opponents... the next time you're at a stacked table.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:20 AM   #34
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

Hands fairly str8 forward shouldn't be that much debate:

I def should have min raised, i had some reasons for shoving but none of them are important enough to make shoving a better play. Def a mistake

Russo should have flatted every time in that spot

Tehan was playing pretty wild, i totally understand his play (perhaps at least with a pair or something that plays decent) but even then his image was so wild during the bubble i don't think he really gets anyone to make a monster laydown.


Actually pretty silly/funny that all 3 of us made mistakes lol.... Happens though , last time i checked everyone at the table was human. Everybody needs to chill if we all never made mistakes 100% of the time there really wouldn't be much room for profits. Just because people make some mistakes it doesnt make them idiots or horrible players lol.... if that how you go about making judgements on people then you have a very incorrect understanding of the world and how people work. People who have the ability to make mistakes and learn from them are the strongest and brightest... those who cant learn from them or don't even put them selves in a position to make mistakes or be seen making mistakes won't go many places.... I can rarely get myself to read these threads because literally 100% of the time i see any thread about a hand there are just a bunch of people treating each other terribly and talking down to or about everyone. I mean seriously we are all of the same species we are supposed to be on the same team and help each other out lol Especially here on a forum this is a community to educate each other and share information. Change your mindsets from trying to make people look stupid to trying to help your peers and share information because thats what this is really about. (ps none of this rant has much to do about what any1 has said about me you guys are ragging on others in the hand or commenting on the thread pretty hard but that just seems to be the standard no matter who or what hand) And dont get me wrong there are awesome people on this forum but i think more of you are capable of doing so as well.

And those trying to sidetrack the hand into Russo angling to ask me a Q to figure out if she should call or not : Just because you think she doesnt live up to the player you expect her to be doesn't mean you should start falsely misconstruing her she was 100% just referring to the fact whats going on is probably funny from my perspective being all in.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:55 AM   #35
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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Originally Posted by fslexcduck View Post
I'm gonna go ahead and just guess that Vanessa owned Joe and is owning everyone in this thread. She saw him being absurd and said hey if I click it back I'll put enough dead money out there that he'll just go for it. And then she trolled her tv interview and is laughing at everyone here. Since that's obv what happened, it's a pretty sick play.
No idea what her intent was but I'm definitely minraising in this spot vs. Joe next time.

Quote:
As for Joe, it was obviously bad to do this with 42o but not as terrible as everyone thinks IMO. Not only does he free roll farazs dough when Vanessa folds, but more importantly, he usually triples up the shorty and now everyone is much bigger than 20BB on a 50k bubble and he has a giant stack to abuse that bubble. If Vanessa folds and Faraz triples, bubble prolly lasts over an hour, and Mr. 42o can chip up infinite.
This might have a small chance of making sense if it was someone other than Faraz, he was shorter stacked, and/or didn't have position on Joe. If Faraz triples up here, he's going to have 56 BBs and be on Joe's left, which is going to make it very difficult for Joe to abuse the bubble.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:58 AM   #36
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

Typo: there are some Awsome people on this forum who are very mature and productive with their words but I think more of you are capable of doing the same if you just sit back and ask yourself what the point of your posts are before you post them
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:24 AM   #37
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

it seems jaka got jaka'd
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:27 AM   #38
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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Yea yea she was just talking about the hand for the camera time (or the blog time if there weren't any cameras). LOL at not calling 100% of your range here. She sucks and is only a Stars pro because she isn't terrible to look at.
if she sucks so much why does she crush live birds so hard and the wcoop main. Not saying she's the best ever, but that's pretty absurd to say she sucks.

my thoughts: jaka's shove is fine... wtf is wrong with u guys? Firstly, it's the bubble so he may get flatted and beaten out of the pot, no one likes to bubble 50k... i don't care who u are. 2ndly, he may have been shoving his whole range in this spot, and it was a 6 handed table. I can't criticize. Vanessa re raise is fine too, tanking to the shove is kind of funny, but come on guys she has the right to think about every decision, especially on a 50k bubble. IDK wtf Joe was doing, but I respect the hell out of him as a person and as a player so I won't call him an idiot. Really kind of retarded thing to do on the bubble when Vanessa CLEARLY has a top 5-6 HAND.

OH, and epic poker is a ****ing joke... who the *** cares what happened at any of these stupid little gayfest events. Let's stop giving this the attention it doesn't deserve and maybe it'll go away.

Last edited by Kramerica; 12-17-2011 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:32 AM   #39
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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rousso in interview said she minreraised so she'd have a better chance to make a read and get away from it because she's been playing live for 6 years and trusts her reads....

its not really fair but w/e....
while it sounds silly, live poker is largely based on reads. If she put the guy on AA and folded she'd feel really smart still being in the tournament, no matter what any of us thought about her play on 2 plus 2.

kleath- i suppose if u flat in a normal circumstance, the person behind is going to shove a wider range. Apparently Tehan doesn't subscribe to that logic tho.

Really like V selbst post, she prolly understands the mindset of a lady named vanessa better than all of us anyways =).

oh and toilet- get that weak sht outta here. If it weren't for flaming these forums wouldn't be fun and no one would ever learn or read them. SERIOUSLY tired of these 'WHY'S EVERYONE SO MEAN AROUND HERE WE'RE ALL HUMAN BEINGS?' POSTS. just get that weak sht outtttttttttttta here homie

Last edited by Kramerica; 12-17-2011 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:41 AM   #40
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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Originally Posted by fslexcduck View Post
I'm gonna go ahead and just guess that Vanessa owned Joe and is owning everyone in this thread. She saw him being absurd and said hey if I click it back I'll put enough dead money out there that he'll just go for it. And then she trolled her tv interview and is laughing at everyone here. Since that's obv what happened, it's a pretty sick play.
hahahahahahha

i'd honestly quit poker and bow down and kiss her feet and call her the GOAT if this were the case.....but the thought of it being the case made me laughhhhh

combined w/ the slowroll troll hahahaa imagine if rousso was actually SICKEST at poker...and won this hand so hard..
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:47 AM   #41
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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Originally Posted by Farmer Ted View Post
Faraz shoved 17 bigs with AA, got two callers, but he screwed up...

Vanessa built a massive side pot that she had a 6:1 edge on, but she screwed up...

Tehan... okay, he really did screw up (although the move still has merit).

Two of them played their hands perfectly considering how much was in the middle vs. their respective EVs when the cards were flipped up.

To those of you suggesting otherwise, good luck with taking standard fish lines vs. pro opponents... the next time you're at a stacked table.
someone don't even troll this results oriented thinking moron...just post some memes please with the gems....

GOOD LUCK WITH TAKING STANDARD FISH LINES VS PRO OPPONENTS THE NEXT TIME YOU'RE AT A STACKED TABLE....

CAN I PLAY 6M CASH WITH TEHAN/ROUSSO/JAKAJAKAJAJAKAJAKA (LOLHE'SACTUALLYMUCHBETTERDONTWNANACINLDUE HIM) FOR ETERNITY?????

PLZ...VANESSA TANKED FOREVER......IF SHE MINRAISE N SNAPS OFF JOE TEHAN N SAID I KNEW YOU'D TAKE THE BAIT! THEN YES SHE'S THE GOAT...BUT SHE TANK CALLED WITH ALL THE $ OUT THERE VS AN ABSURD TARD....WITH THE THIRD BEST HAND IN NL TEXAS HOLDEM!!!

FARAZ I HOPE UR POST WASN'T DIRECTED AT ME DAWG I EVEN MADE A POST DEFENDING YOU I JUST ANALYZE HANDS AND VENT THAT I RUN BAD AND AM BUSTO....

HEY IF SOMEONE TOLD YOU THERE WAS A HAND W/ FARAZ JAKA ON THE BUBBLE OF THE EPIC POKER 20K AND ACES WERE CRACKED BY 42o IN A HUGE POT WHAT IS LINE THAT JAKA HAD 42o??????? gotta be like 95% jaka
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:50 AM   #42
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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Originally Posted by Kramerica View Post
while it sounds silly, live poker is largely based on reads. If she put the guy on AA and folded she'd feel really smart still being in the tournament, no matter what any of us thought about her play on 2 plus 2.
nah playing hands in a way that JUST maybe after putting in 40% of your stack you can fold QQ if you get a read on the bubble of an epic poker 20k with AGGRO players after you is idiotic.......she obviously thought there was a good chance the dude had KK+ or seh wouldn't ****ing tank forever and she had 42o nice READ or maybe the READ took some time to develop

i play live poker solely based on physical tells i flat 28s and outplay em postlfop all day cuz i soulread em playa plz i'm an epic poker player
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:55 AM   #43
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

Fine, but it is possible to make absurd folds live if you have a very specific read.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:06 PM   #44
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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Fine, but it is possible to make absurd folds live if you have a very specific read.
And the sky is blue, and the world is round.

I've folded kings and sets couple times live.

You 6bet Mike Binger w/ AKo this summer in level 1.

Who wins now, punk?

lol
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:14 PM   #45
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

i had a read
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:16 PM   #46
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

stealthmunk is the best poster in the history of internet forums
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:24 PM   #47
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

Not that it makes a huge difference, but the way pokernews reported the hand makes me think the chip counts reported are a bit off. The blinds were 2,000/4,000/500. Jaka moved all-in from UTG for 68,000. Folded to Russo and she re-raised to 120,000. If Jaka had 68,000 and shoved, then a min-raise by Russo here would have to be to 132,000. Think maybe it should've read "Jaka moved all-in from UTG for 62,000. Folded to Russo and she re-raised to 120,000." For the 68,000 and 120,000 to be the correct raises, than that would mean the blinds would have to be 8,000/16,000/1,000(or 2,000, not sure what the antes would be at this level). Obviously that's not the case though. Am I the only one who has noticed this error??
#pokernewssucksathandhistories
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:25 PM   #48
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

Vanessa's reraise was not to legal size, she would have to make it 132k.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:34 PM   #49
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

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Vanessa's reraise was not to legal size, she would have to make it 132k.
^^ beat you to that conclusion. Think they misreported Jaka's UTG shove. 62,000 makes more sense for them to make an error and report it as 68,000 than misreporting 132,000 as 120,000.

Was wondering why no one else up to this point had noticed this.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:31 PM   #50
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Re: Joe Tehan Bubble Hand - EPIC 20K

Stealthmunk is my favourite

Jaka gets an 8/10
Vanessa gets a 6/10 because she tanked but still made the right decision
Tehan gets a 0/10 because he 4bet 24o without fold equity
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