Don't like how I played this hand.

This was a 1 re-entry event, that I had just re-entered into, so I had only been at this table for 7 hands.

9 handed table
Button 16500
SB(me) 21000
BB 13000
Blinds 300-600, 75 ante

It folds around to the button who raises to 1200
I look down at 66, I decide just to flat and set mine essentially, not wanting to 3bet and call off if the button 4 bet shoves.
The BB calls and we see a flop of 338 rainbow.
I check, bb checks, and the button bets 2000
This is a good flop for me, but there are no good turns, so i decide to check raise to 5700.
The BB folds and the button moves all in relatively fast.
9800 more to me, I can't think of any hands other than complete bluffs I can beat so I fold.
The button shows A9 off so well played sir.

What does everyone think of my flop raise? I like my flop fold and wasn't really bothered by getting bluffed, but really feel like I played this hand terrible. I think I like shoving pre more than 3betting 3-4x pre OOP. Maybe donk bet flop, or is calling and seeing a turn the play?


Let me know.

shove pre is way better than gay flatting at this stack depth.

Yeah that seems really like the only play, there is no way to play postflop without hemorrhaging chips more often than not.

Odds to set mine are there, so no problem with preflop action. Completely disagree with the jam pre crowd here. And obv. as played villain would have paid you off on a 336 flop.

Don't like the flop c/r here. Just fold when you miss. What are you repping with a c/r? Hard to put you on a 3 and impossible to put you on TT+ so 88 is really the only hand to fear.

If you fold, you have 33bbs and you're on the button next hand. As played, you now have a more awkward stack size.

Donking is a tough play here. With 4275 in the pot, if you donk, you're folding to any raise, again, making your stack size awkward.

Calling and seeing turn is problematic because you don't know what BB will do when you call. If BB calls, you're finished unless you turn a 6.

Sometimes we take our flop odds and fold when we miss. This seems one of those times. Trying to win every hand gets you in trouble.

Are you surprised by his shove? What hands for value do you have when you c/r here?

I'm not surprised by his shove, but I didn't think I would get shoved on by not a made hand. The check raise was a poor attempt to take down the pot while I felt I most likely had the best of it and to help prevent being outplayed on later streets.

Deeper stacks I definitely would've just called and made a decision on the turn.

Really what odds are they then?

You didn't answer my second and more important question which answers why he shoved on you with overcards. If you think about your preflop range, you get it in with most pairs, fold most 3x and 8x, and if you do flop an 8 with 98s or something you're probably looking to c/c. Even slowplayed KK+ doesn't make a lot of sense to c/r on this extremely safe board if you thought slowplaying pre was the play. So all in all, he probably thinks there's just about a 0% chance you're going to have a hand that calls.

So, you need to play all your hands for a call here, or have a mixture of c/r bluffs and value here vs smart opponents. A c/r bluff would be a hand like T9s with a backdoor flushdraw, and value could be a hand like KK or A8.

This. If you c/r 66 and he shoves or even just calls you are pretty screwed. You want to pick hands that are either really strong or really weak to c/r.

Seems like a very easy call on the flop. His bet size is pretty small, I think this flop is too good for our hand to just fold.

Shoving pre is bad imo, too much risk for too little reward. You're never in great shape when called.

28 BB seems like a pretty heavy pre flop shove here. I'm interested in how many effective BBs we'd need to be at risk for us NOT to shove (if people are saying shove is in fact the default pre)

^all this makes sense. Main reason I felt I played this hand so poorly.

^ im ashamed to answer question 2 cause I know the answer 😊
For the record I would c/r here with some suited Back door flush draws, over pairs, and sets. It is apparent I am check raising far to often. It has definitely became a leak. Thanks for the review.

Yeah you don't have overpairs (99-QQ 3bet or shove pre) and sets (88/33 would be really bad to raise here unless you really expect him to always mess with you, and you get 88 in pre anyway), so you have only the air part. Because of this I'd advice against raising any hands on this flop.

No need to be ashamed, when I started playing poker I limped 65o utg cause it could make a straight.

You could advocate to c/r call this hand too, right? I think most people can tell that we rep nothing on this board and are going to overbluff.

I didn't give the button credit for being very good, so I took his shove as a straight forward play, but it appears that even an average player could tell it didn't make sense. If played this way I do thing you should call off, but it definitely doesn't seem to be the optimal play.

shove pre- easy

Shoving pre is a correct play, folding wouldn't be bad too. What you did is a mistake, postflop is load of crap nonsense button clicking that I can't even

preflop is fine. I don't like such big shove into such a small pot as other posters have suggested.

Flop - I understand what you are thinking that a lot of turns suck. You won't know where you stand on any card higher than a 10. But on the flip side, not all players will fire multiple barrels. Some will check the turn and check the river. You have to call and "play poker"

When you raise the flop, a good player can see that you range is at best a weak 8 and more likely a small pair that is trying to protect their hand. He decided that you would let it go with any additional pressure and he was right.

Jamming 26BB pre over a button raise with 66 seems like overkill, but flatting at these stack depths to set mine is ambitious because it's not as if you'll stack your opponents enough when you hit a set to make it worthwhile.

Is a 3-bet preflop to 3.6K (with the intention of folding to a shove) over a button open really out of the question? In a mid-stakes tournament how often are players really 4-betting as a bluff?

As to the flop, I think the dynamic that's overlooked here are stack sizes. There's roughly 6K in the pot, 2K to us, and our opponent has 13.3K behind. I think we have to be prepared on the turn for our opponent to fire again to potentially set up a river jam with what would be pretty close to a pot-size bet.

I guess my question is that if we call the flop, are we calling if an overcard hits and our opponent fires again on the turn?

Disagree.

9 handed
Antes=675
BB=1200
Bu=1200
SB=600
Total=3675

We put in 600 to make the pot 4275

If we assume a standard c-bet from Bu, we are getting better than 10-1 implied on a call. We don't need to stack an opponent to make set mining profitable, we just need the right odds.

We're in the small blind. We need to put in 900 and the big blind will squeeze a % of the time.

3b/folding this hand is one of the worst you can pick. 3b/fold J9s, A2s etc. I don't know what you're talking about with being worried about a potsized river shove, we just fold our hand on the turn or river if villain bets unless we have a specific read. We have other stronger hands to continue with. I understand flatting pre is difficult, but it's better than folding. So is shoving, I'm not sure which of those two is best. I prefer shove for my overall strategy.

It's easy, op should shove pre if he's gonna play post like this.

Two questions:

1. Let's assume we check-call flop and our opponent bets turn on a brick. (i.e., a card that is unlikely to improve anyone's hand) Doesn't folding a pair in this spot mean we're folding too much? If we fold 66 to two bets, are we overfolding?

2. As to whether we can 3b/fold pre, I think in this spot 66 near the bottom of my 3b/value range, and the question is whether we should have some hands at the bottom of that range that we can fold. I completely understand having hands like weak Axs or one-gapped broadways that we 3b as bluffs because they're not good enough to call or raise for value.

I'm just asking questions, not saying I'm right or wrong and am way more likely to be the latter.

Oops. You're right. My bad.

Still think it's a set mining call but I see you're point if you disagree. 900 will still yield substantial implied odds. A reasonable c-bet will be a 6,500-7,000 pot, and we will stack opponent enough to justify the call. I note that as played here, button would clearly have stacked off.

Yes, we will get squeezed sometimes and it's a fair point that that reduces the utility in calling.