I don't suppose in all of this mess that anyone actually cares about the hand itself, but just in case....

Assuming that FU calls open shoves with 88+,ATs+,KQs,AQo+ (6%)
and that he reshoves a 2.5x raise with 22+,A4s+,K8s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,A9o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo (top 23%)

and never flat calls....

Raise fold is +509
Raise call is +377
Open shove is +690.

(No I won't show my work or debate assumptions...tweak and adjust urselves)


sheets

Words and ideas are a lot better indication of a MTT player's skill than results.

saying FU is terrible is a little much no? yea many of you are better than him at poker.. but hes good at poker and is def qualified to teach beginners and such.

His style is so different that most people getting coaching from him, would misapply the concepts and become worse at poker imo.

I would be able to provide good MTT videos as they are ******edly easy, etc. for obvious reasons.

However, I was asked to do PLO videos. And I'm not as good at expressing why I do certain things in my cash games (particularly hu) from a theoretical, and back it up with math. I just simply do them because of experience/instinct etc. and I wouldn't be able to match the high quality cash game videos there are out there from a lot of really good players selling their souls ruining the poker economy. MTTs are really easy to just put people on ranges, and make the right play. The best players pretty much play very close to the same, and what "separates" them is just variance/consistency/and the ability to not tilt.

Anyways, it would be good if this thread gets a lot more views, maybe FU_15 can cancel out all the damage CR/PXF has done.

He also is clearly stupid, as you can see from his posts. So....even though his "style" has some good things to it. He has no clue why/how to explain why they are good/teach so his students will have no clue.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?2821705

more fun from FU_15

[ ] hand was badly played by FU_15

Even though I generally like your posts I might just argue that there are some non-standard things in the hand, like raising 27s >150bbs deep in 4th pos and calling a >3x 3bet OOP. Also the AK 3bet on the flop might just be non-standard, but wtf, I guess the 27s check/raise qualifies .

I'm saying the hand is standard for FU_15, in that he wasn't tilting, its his standard play.

Seriously some nice discussion going on about the hand btw, the more math the more I like the shove. Fits the intuitive QTs hmm stacksareso3betallinish playingOOPsuckssomuch betterjustshoveline.

first post in HSMTT so don't flame me too hard please, I certainly don't play these kind of stakes but quick quesiton. Doesn't FU not have two random cards anymore after the action has folded all the way to teh SB. I mean clearly that signifies nobody else at the table had a good starting hand. So wouldn't FU be more likely to have high cards himself then? I'm curious actually whether in calculating FU's odds of having any King, any Ace, any pair or QT+ whether people factored in that a Q and T are already "missing" from the deck now. That seems to ever so slightly increase the odds of such a hand to begin with.

Also isn't it kind of silly to say a play is +cEV so end of discussion like so many of you are doing. I mean shoving AA UTG first hand of a tourny is unexploitably +cEV but its clearly not a good play. The SB and BB are playing with "free" money in a sense b/c of all the antes of other players so it seems natural that multiple lines could be +cEV with an above average starting hand like QTs even if we are oop in the SB.

Shouldn't this be an argument for raise/folding?

It's the only option with a 0% chance of busting. Or is the extra 180 chips worth the fact that ~4% of the time you bust?

I don't play enough HSMTTs to know him but I'm looking at FU_15's OPR stats and he looks more like a fluk than a good player.

His ranking seems to depend mainly on 3 big wins (82% of his winnings) which were in relatively small fields.

His 2007 OPR was 3

His sample size is too small

his avg finish % looks horrible at:
field: 10%,20%,40%,20%,10%
his finishes: 19%,29%,35%,10%,7%

Edit: I should add his 2007 finish % as a rating of 3 looks similar to his finishes as a rating of 10

Statistical anomolies happen all the time in poker. Am I way off base on this?

What part was poorly played by FU_15?

It kind of irked me when randallin said 3xing is best here, and many others agreed. I think 3xing (and folding to a reshove i assume) is by far the worst option here, especially against someone who is definetly going to be reshoving light. Can someone go into this more please? I dont mind shoving, but I think i like limping a little more. QTs plays fantastically when FU checks and even seems fine to shove when he raises!

This thread got me thinking...I need to make more "unexploitable" shoves like DJK. Ooops.


Poker Stars $300+$20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t125/t250 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: t12480
Hero (UTG+2): t6168
MP1: t8498
MP2: t6836
CO: t12445
BTN: t14448
SB: t5535
BB: t11075
UTG: t14505

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG+2 with 6 6
2 folds, Hero raises to t6143 all in, MP1 raises to t8473 all in, 2 folds, BTN raises to t14423 all in, 2 folds

Flop: (t23689) 2 A 5 (3 players - 3 are all in)

Turn: (t23689) 3 (3 players - 3 are all in)

River: (t23689) 4 (3 players - 3 are all in)

It generally works a lot better w/ 1 player left to act and not 6. Isn't running good fun tho?

Edit: 1 more post to 1000!

I take it that pple saying 3xing is best are just lumping QTs with evey other random hand here that isnt good enough to raise/call, limp/shove/any other way of getting it in? QTs has gotta have more value than that, no? I still cant see how 3xing it is any good here. I mean is FU really flatting here ever?

lol, you do realize that's not an example of an "unexploitable" shove, right?

yes

I decided to be a little more diplomatic, but that was my general message.

If I raised I would probably raise like 2.5x, which should make him call more and reship less.

yes to waht

He is flatting sometimes

[ ] shove is unexploitable!
[x] I assume u were joking, tho