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Old 05-13-2017, 04:31 AM   #1
OutPlayU27
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FT spot vs reg

Hi guys.
So this spot came up on a FT of a 250€ played on .es (obv)
I kinda put myself into a tough spot, but first i want to see what your thoughts are.
So V is a solid reg overall, but tends to go crazy @Ft磗 when he has chips (made a couple of ft磗 vs him), openening way to wide/being to agressive.
Obv is a good strategy since ICM ****s us all and everyone seemed to play to tight/snug.
Now BB is a regfish pretty loose, so i want to put him in a tough spot also by 3betting and don磘 want him to flat here w/ 87o or w/e since we磖e in the worst position ever (what do we do if BB decides to jamm, do we call? ), but we do have a pretty hand to go multiway
Now do we flat , do we 3bet? What are we doing if he 4bets (def capable of)?
When i have some responses i磍l post what i did, and what was the action.


[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $232.24 Buy-in (7,000/14,000 blinds, 1,750 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37725162

CO: 236,664 (16.9 bb)
BTN: 626,619 (44.8 bb)
Hero (SB): 526,706 (37.6 bb)
BB: 184,215 (13.2 bb)
MP1: 813,920 (58.1 bb)
MP2: 195,269 (13.9 bb)
MP3: 701,607 (50.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A J
MP1 raises to 29,400, 4 folds, [color="red"]Hero???

Payout structure:
1. 10.400€
2. 7630
3. 5750
4. 4300
5. 3000
6. 2290
7. 1780

As a note, obv ICM is important , but for me is all about the win (try and play as good as i can), so i磎 not playing scared money
If any questions, feel free to ask
Ty
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:46 AM   #2
lolposting2016
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Flatting seems ok since ur not trying to rly 3b/c. But if he's as loose as you say 3b can't be all that bad
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:59 AM   #3
OutPlayU27
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
Flatting seems ok since ur not trying to rly 3b/c. But if he's as loose as you say 3b can't be all that bad
Obv not 3bet/c (but 3bet for value), but what do we do if he 4bets?

Last edited by OutPlayU27; 05-13-2017 at 05:01 AM. Reason: i prefer to 3bet my SB range , flat some, fold some...
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:46 AM   #4
cicakman
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Just flatting
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:37 PM   #5
fortisque
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Flat
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Old 05-13-2017, 06:38 PM   #6
lolposting2016
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Re: FT spot vs reg

I mean he's not going to be 4betting all that often. so I'm not all that worried about it
Like if he takes some small 4b strategy I'll call a decent amount of 4b sizings.
Honestly either option is probably fine as long as you don't fold. Like while icm is a big deal idk if it should get in the way of us playing a strong aggressive strategy from the sb.
I guess all in all I'd just 3b and sigh fold if he jams. If he shows me that I need to make an adjustment from my typical linear 3b strategy sb vs lp opens then I guess I can do that later on but without a real solid read/stats or previous notes like hey this dude jams way light vs sb 3bs I just go ahead and put in the reraise.
It's way more likely that he's leaking by overfolding/ or opening super wide and calling too many 3bs in position than it his he's going to exploit our 3b range by sticking it in with like 66 here
also you'll have plenty of other hands to call with here if he jams so it's not the end of the world to fold this
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Old 05-13-2017, 07:54 PM   #7
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Re: FT spot vs reg

3b pre
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:37 AM   #8
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Hey guys, so i really agree that flatting is superior, but i decided to 3bet : 1) Is pretty loose UTG (more giving FT and all) 2) Stop his 创momentum创.
And yeah i put myself into a stupid spot by doing this, so i kinda regret it, but is been really agrro vs me in the past, fighting for pots/tries to run me over lol
@lolposting2016 Was spot on and also agree w/ your post, sooo


[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $232.24 Buy-in (7,000/14,000 blinds, 1,750 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37726062

CO: 236,664 (16.9 bb)
BTN: 626,619 (44.8 bb)
Hero (SB): 526,706 (37.6 bb)
BB: 184,215 (13.2 bb)
MP1: 813,920 (58.1 bb)
MP2: 195,269 (13.9 bb)
MP3: 701,607 (50.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A J
MP1 raises to 29,400, 4 folds, Hero raises to 92,500, BB folds, MP1 raises to 179,200, Hero ???

WUG???

Ok, so notes/history is that *giving effective stacks* is 4bet jamming AK,JJ and flats some % of time AA and SC and induce QQ/KK and obv all his random 4bet bluffs aka Ax,Kx and some other junks (for now didn磘 4bet jamm stuff like 66, he might fold pre those small pp磗 )

So yeah, we can磘 really fold now, but SPR is <1
Do we flat and soul read? Jamm? Fold?
What do we do, if we decide to flat, on 954,QT2,883, A29 etc. (obv depends of his sizing, texture/FD磗 or not)
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Old 05-15-2017, 12:28 PM   #9
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Re: FT spot vs reg

jam pre given the situation - you're happy with a fold tho which will happen most of the time and avoid getting jammed on by any2 cards when you 3bet. Shouldn't be close at all. Don't mind folding as it could be second best with 0 EV.

3bet would be icm suicide tho
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:08 PM   #10
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Re: FT spot vs reg

I'd just fold now and move on
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:30 PM   #11
lolposting2016
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Gross. lol :/
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Old 05-15-2017, 02:09 PM   #12
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Re: FT spot vs reg

This is a very, very clear call vs. MP1 open.

As played vs. the 4-bet? Ugh, I think we fold. AJs should be at the bottom of our 3-bet value range here (or at the top of our 3-bet bluff range) and we have to have some folds here.

Last edited by jpgiro; 05-15-2017 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 05-15-2017, 03:11 PM   #13
OutPlayU27
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FT spot vs reg

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
Gross. lol :/

What happened w/ "never folding" , backing out bro? Lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro View Post
This is a very, very clear call vs. MP1 open.

As played vs. the 4-bet? Ugh, I think we fold. AJs should be at the bottom of our 3-bet value range here (or at the top of our 3-bet bluff range) and we have to have some folds here.

I will def flat in BU/BB so can't say is a "must call" , prob because of ICM but not positions tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman View Post
I'd just fold now and move on

So he can just click it back w/ any two and print ?
I do agree flat pre is better tho so we can avoid this spots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cold_smile View Post
jam pre given the situation - you're happy with a fold tho which will happen most of the time and avoid getting jammed on by any2 cards when you 3bet. Shouldn't be close at all. Don't mind folding as it could be second best with 0 EV.

3bet would be icm suicide tho


3bet jamm is spew, def worse option, and folding pre is out of the question....


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Old 05-15-2017, 04:32 PM   #14
lolposting2016
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Re: FT spot vs reg

I like to peel 4bs but it's for such a big% of ur stack. I think u have to call tho bc pot odds
Then the plan is to either flop a flush trips or a straight. You also have plan b which is to flop a or j, or flush draw or straight draw. Plan c than if you get a gross flop and c/f than just get aa next hand and double up ez game
But this goes back to my op if your read is that he's doing too much 4b than just 3b polarized range and call hands like this
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Old 05-15-2017, 04:38 PM   #15
lolposting2016
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Re: FT spot vs reg

But then also if he's 4b a bunch of retard hands then just going all in could be kinda ok too I think
Fun spot lol
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:49 PM   #16
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutPlayU27 View Post

So he can just click it back w/ any two and print ?
I do agree flat pre is better tho so we can avoid this spots.
Oh please. He doesn't know what you're 3b/f and 3b/c. Balance to avoid exploitation is such a silly concept.
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:28 AM   #17
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Sooo, this thread should been called 创ICM suicide创 lol, but decided to flat cus 创pot odds创 and is just being overally aggro....


[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $232.24 Buy-in (7,000/14,000 blinds, 1,750 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37730344

CO: 236,664 (16.9 bb)
BTN: 626,619 (44.8 bb)
Hero (SB): 526,706 (37.6 bb)
BB: 184,215 (13.2 bb)
MP1: 813,920 (58.1 bb)
MP2: 195,269 (13.9 bb)
MP3: 701,607 (50.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A J
MP1 raises to 29,400, 4 folds, Hero raises to 92,500, BB folds, MP1 raises to 179,200, Hero calls 86,700

Flop: (384,650) 9 4 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets 72,800, Hero ???


Now givin stats/notes he still could be FOS, and if not, do we call and bluff some rivers if turn goes x/x (or maybe go to showdown and win depending on runout)? , do we fold now?
My range could def have strong hands here, yeah i would prob 5bet jamm AK/JJ (not 100% tho, prob flat AKs), but def could have traps like QQ+ givin spr and all.
Thoughts?
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Old 05-21-2017, 11:39 AM   #18
lolposting2016
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Xc for this size w overs and bdfd
You should jam all ak combos pre w qq and most jj
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:00 PM   #19
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Reckon you gotta peel again now
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Old 05-22-2017, 04:40 PM   #20
OutPlayU27
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Def not a spot you wanna be in, so yeah i call turn and he insta jamms turn


[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $232.24 Buy-in (7,000/14,000 blinds, 1,750 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37732986

CO: 236,664 (16.9 bb)
BTN: 626,619 (44.8 bb)
Hero (SB): 526,706 (37.6 bb)
BB: 184,215 (13.2 bb)
MP1: 813,920 (58.1 bb)
MP2: 195,269 (13.9 bb)
MP3: 701,607 (50.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A J
MP1 raises to 29,400, 4 folds, Hero raises to 92,500, BB folds, MP1 raises to 179,200, Hero calls 86,700

Flop: (384,650) 9 4 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets 72,800, Hero calls 72,800

Turn: (530,250) A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets 280,000, Hero can磘 really fold now, can we???

Last edited by OutPlayU27; 05-22-2017 at 04:41 PM. Reason: we磖e all in if we call....
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:45 PM   #21
lolposting2016
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Bazam. Break the mouse and cry when he shows a4s
But yea you have then nuts for ur range now so have to call
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:55 PM   #22
cicakman
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Obv not folding on the turn
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Old 05-22-2017, 07:51 PM   #23
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Maybe you should have a plan before you do things.

Flat pre or 3/5bshove are both good plans depending on what you think your opponent will do. 3betting intending on calling a 4bet and letting him barrel off is also potentially a good plan, but it's much riskier and not every board is the best for calling down ace high. Flop is whatever, turn is super obvious call as he should be shoving all his big pairs that we now beat for value.
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:33 AM   #24
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Preflop, why are we taking reasonably strong hands that should be within our calling range and 3-betting them? AJs plays well as a flat here, but plays pretty badly once we 3-bet and get raised. It doesn't even play that great if our opponent flats because we're OOP against a range we might easily be behind. We have way worse suited Ax that we can use as 3-bet bluffs, and we're certainly not raising AJs for value.

As played, once you create that SPR and you spike top pair on the turn, you're kind of committed to going with the hand.
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:35 PM   #25
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Re: FT spot vs reg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soepgroente View Post
Maybe you should have a plan before you do things.

Flat pre or 3/5bshove are both good plans depending on what you think your opponent will do. 3betting intending on calling a 4bet and letting him barrel off is also potentially a good plan, but it's much riskier and not every board is the best for calling down ace high. Flop is whatever, turn is super obvious call as he should be shoving all his big pairs that we now beat for value.
maybe you should plan before you post random low content strat. what does this post even suggest dude?
"you could flat or 3b /5b shove, or you could also flat the 4b" yea, obviously.
op played the hand quite close to optimally at basically every decision point imo. sucks that he probably lost. the only decision thats close is pre whether to flat or 3b, and 3b is not even close to a bad decision.
yea you can jam pre but with the pot odds and icm issues calling the 4b is not even close to a mistake.
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