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| High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of high stakes MTT hands and techniques |
06-14-2008, 04:20 AM
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#1
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the second coming of the second coming
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: POLLOS
Posts: 34,298
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Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
presented chronologically, along with the debates i was having on each decision.
blinds 100/200, i have 10k
i open 8s6s to 450 utg. utg+1 thinks for a bit and then calls. two more people behind call and so do the blinds
pot 2700. flop is 666
i {check | bet [how much?]}
blinds 100/200/25
tim phan who covers me opens in HJ to 700. he has been fairly LAG so far (although later on a shorter stack he tightened up significantly).
i have 99 on the button and 10k
i {call | raise [with what plan?]}
blinds 150/300/25
not sure of exact stack sizes unfortunately but i believe we are ~12k effective
2p2er ofishstix opens to 825 in 4th position (iirc)
i call co with KQo
pot 2350
flop K7x, he bets 1025, i call
pot 4400
turn 7, c/c
river y, he bets 1125, i {call | raise [how much?]}
blinds 400/800/100
e/mp limps, he looks like a real-life hank hill without the glasses, he is new to the table, and this is the first hand he's VP$IP. he he has ~30k
i have 33k and check T6o in BB
pot 3000
flop 987 one spade, i bet 1200, he calls after about 2-3 seconds
pot 5400
turn Ks, i bet 2700, he immediately makes it 7k
i {shove | fold | call }
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06-14-2008, 04:26 AM
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#2
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,950
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
1. check, pps are betting and the pot is already really big. rep AK
2. call unless you've been 3betting people.
3. 4150
4. shove
imo
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06-14-2008, 04:50 AM
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#3
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mickmacking
Posts: 4,897
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakes
1. check, pps are betting and the pot is already really big. rep AK
2. call unless you've been 3betting people.
3. 4150
4. shove
imo
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1. Wouldn't betting get all pps to call us anyway? If we c/c or c/r our hand looks pretty damn strong, and although nobody's gonna give us credit for a 6 would they fire two barrels with something like 88 if we flat and the turn is an undercard? Or am I giving too much credit for live players here
2. Totally agree
3. Seems like when you call a flop that dry and don't bet the turn that you're never floating here. River seems like an obviously thin value bet, but do you think he'd call a raise here with KJ/KT after we've played it to the river like this?
4. Shove because a bunch of rivers are killing your action
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06-14-2008, 05:00 AM
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#4
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 10,370
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
1 I def bet, the prob with checking is that when you wake up later it loosk so strong, and all pps are peeling and will be committed if you instalment plan it. I bet like 1350
2 I call
3 I fold pre
4 I definitely shove and dont think this should be a question
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06-14-2008, 07:31 AM
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#5
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,765
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
1) i def bet. people will always call with a pocket pair (you dont need to rep AK, they already think you have it...) but won't always bet with one (into so many other players)
also yeah when you wake up later it looks stronger than just firing away
2) call, plan is you have position and expect to be considerably ahead of his range, fold terrible flops, bet most flops when checked to, call one overcard type flops, raise good flops... just evaluate situation on it's merit but with the assumption your hand is gonna be ahead on the flop most of the time
3) agree with both praetor and bakes
4) shove
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06-14-2008, 01:23 PM
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#6
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 12,386
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
1. I like betting here for sure. Isn't there some 2p2 theorem that people never fold a boat with trips on board? You must have fallen out of your chair when the flop came out. Raise with garbage UTG and get 5 callers, you're like, "**** me", and then flop quads, mbn.
2. Agree with Bakes.
3. Just call.
4. Ship it.
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06-14-2008, 02:37 PM
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#7
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,602
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakes
1. check, pps are betting and the pot is already really big. rep AK
2. call unless you've been 3betting people.
3. 4150
4. shove
imo
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Agree with this except I just call 3. When you raise 3 you don't get called by any worse hands.
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06-14-2008, 02:59 PM
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#8
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old hand
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Arcadia,CA <-> Henderson, NV
Posts: 1,832
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
1. check the flop. get all in at the river, two more streets to come can improve villain's hand.
2. call
3. call.
4. How likely he plays a set or QsJs this way? Limping Js9s, Js8s?or TJ. There are so many hands we beat only lose to one hand.
But I think he's very likely to have TJo, Wouldn't a set/tp raises the flop? There's a backdoor flush draw plus straight draw, he's not slow playing TJo here on the turn. So, at this point, I think he has either QsJs or TJ and more likely TJ.
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06-14-2008, 03:23 PM
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#9
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: las vegas, nv
Posts: 5,993
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
1. BET FLOP BET FLOP BET FLOP
ppl who check here are lighting money on fire imo
i wish i could count the times i have lead out w/ flopped stones like this and been raised
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06-14-2008, 03:31 PM
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#10
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: eight more years!
Posts: 10,854
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahSD
Agree with this except I just call 3. When you raise 3 you don't get called by any worse hands.
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normally I'd agree but against a 2p2er who knows who nath is, I think some could be going for small value and then be like 'hmm I look so weak here, nath is just trying to pick me off' and call with weaker king or even middle pair.
and even if he doesn't know nath there are a lot of villains who will call light here
anyway I agree with:
1. bet (least confident on this)
2. call unless he thinks you're nuts
3. fold pre, raise river
4. shove
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06-14-2008, 03:50 PM
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#11
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Modding All Day
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Purple Jesus > Al Harris
Posts: 29,752
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
Does ofishstix know you know who he is?
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06-14-2008, 05:15 PM
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#12
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the second coming of the second coming
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: POLLOS
Posts: 34,298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714
Does ofishstix know you know who he is?
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Yes- not sure if he did the whole time, but he def. does by now.
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06-14-2008, 05:52 PM
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#13
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: RIP, DFW.
Posts: 3,414
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
Nath--
Haven't read the other responses. Let's see if I embarrass myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
blinds 100/200, i have 10k
i open 8s6s to 450 utg.
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You better have a damn good reason for doing this. And I mean something beyond "I am committed to having wide preflop ranges."
Quote:
utg+1 thinks for a bit and then calls. two more people behind call and so do the blinds
pot 2700. flop is 666
i {check | bet [how much?]}
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Live I think I check to let other players go WSOPsterical and protect their hands and imagine you have AK, which will be harder to do if you bet.
Quote:
blinds 100/200/25
tim phan who covers me opens in HJ to 700. he has been fairly LAG so far (although later on a shorter stack he tightened up significantly).
i have 99 on the button and 10k
i {call | raise [with what plan?]}
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If the blinds play badly, or are squeeze-happy, call. Otherwise this depends wildly on your image. I'd often be happy to make it 2100 and call a shove from Tim, especially because I can snapfold to many SB/BB shoves from live players. If Tim's been active you need a very good reason not to feel comfortable getting 50 BB in before the flop with 99 in this situation. (Remember the antes.) If some such bizarre reason exists, and it is not one that lets me fold to a shove easily, then I'd flat.
Quote:
blinds 150/300/25
not sure of exact stack sizes unfortunately but i believe we are ~12k effective
2p2er ofishstix opens to 825 in 4th position (iirc)
i call co with KQo
pot 2350
flop K7x, he bets 1025, i call
pot 4400
turn 7, c/c
river y, he bets 1125, i {call | raise [how much?]}
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I'd make a small raise on this particular flop. Your attacking range here should not be deprived of holdings like KQ. Against a perfect opponent calling a shove is trivial. Over the felt it might be a decision. If he's going to barrel a lot, just call, but if he's going to barrel a lot, this is an utterly trivial decision in the first place.
Quote:
blinds 400/800/100
e/mp limps, he looks like a real-life hank hill without the glasses, he is new to the table, and this is the first hand he's VP$IP. he he has ~30k
i have 33k and check T6o in BB
pot 3000
flop 987 one spade, i bet 1200, he calls after about 2-3 seconds
pot 5400
turn Ks, i bet 2700, he immediately makes it 7k
i {shove | fold | call }
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This is a gross spot live. Sorry, but live reads dictate so much of how I play here. Against a perfect opponent I think you should call and fold some but not all rivers. I'm frequently happy to fold in this spot live, but many guys, even ones who look like Hank Hill, will have worse than a straight often enough here to call and evaluate.
All my best,
--Nate
EDIT: Looks like I'm the only one advocating a non-shove on 4. Let me elaborate a very little by noting that this combination of timing tells is often either monstrously strong or marginal and desperate for protection, here. We would prefer not to give a free card here, but many worse hands will fold to our push and we are behind significantly often.
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06-14-2008, 06:18 PM
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#14
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,602
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHFunkii
normally I'd agree but against a 2p2er who knows who nath is, I think some could be going for small value and then be like 'hmm I look so weak here, nath is just trying to pick me off' and call with weaker king or even middle pair.
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What can he think nath's bluffing with here? It just seems like asking too much to expect him to consider the possibility of a flop float and turn check back or nath turning a made hand into a bluff. Plus, he not only has to consider those possibilities; he has to consider them likely enough to make a light call correct.
I would absolutely b/f KJ here and I assume other thinking players do the same. Really surprised to hear different.
Last edited by NoahSD; 06-14-2008 at 06:23 PM.
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06-14-2008, 06:21 PM
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#15
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Ray of Hope
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: LEAVE DEREK ALONE
Posts: 14,464
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Re: Four quick decisions from yesterday's $2k nl
if we start putting money in after checking the flop 6 ways in hand 1 i think we definitely look pretty scary strong. i definitely bet.
i call 2, call river in 3, and shove 4.
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