First hand of monthly quarter mill, 600bb pot with 3rd nuts - Page 2 - High Stakes MTT Strategy

djk123 · 06-19-2012, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clayton

i think 3betting flop is pretty unbalanced if you're following through with aggression on turns and rivers. unless of course you're the kind of guy who just piles 200 big blinds with airballs to get people to fold 3of a kind, but they dont know that.

and i've never played on .fr so maybe i'm underestimating the amount of chips people will put in with J9o here. the buyin being ~$200 leads me to believe you're not going to get a ton of derps who will just have the "call any" button with any jack, but again I could be wrong.

i feel like if the villain is competent then you shouldn't be taking this line. and if you think your villain is most likely bad, then you should be taking this line and snapping the river raise. 300bb oop against someone with a clue, I think a better course of action is coldcalling the flop raise, or 3betting the flop and checkraising/checkcalling the turn.

the turn bet is the most interesting part for me, i guess, because when you bet the turn you're basically saying that you're gonna keep betfolding, in theory, since you have the bottom of your value range 300bb deep oop and you're not getting bluffraised often enough. but that just gets into a cyclical self-debate of "is my opponent bad enough such that i can just pile in a lot and keep betfolding like live poker" at which point it's not unreasonable to widen your value range to the better trip jacks.

tl;dr without reads i dont like flop 3bet + the turn bet. flop coldcall or flop 3bet -> turn check feel better balance-wise (which is more valuable readless than something geared to be exploitative)

cold calling flop seems way more imbalanced than 3betting flop. not saying im going to be 3bet bluffing this flop very often, but i'd certainly be more likely to 3b bluff it than cold call float it

Andrew Boccia · 06-19-2012, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djk123

cold calling flop seems way more imbalanced than 3betting flop. not saying im going to be 3bet bluffing this flop very often, but i'd certainly be more likely to 3b bluff it than cold call float it

yeah there is just no way to do anything in this spot that doesn't look really strong... but agree with what you said.

We probably shouldn't be balanced here as you will probably get called a ton (as evidenced by the "results")

K2AA72 · 06-19-2012, 09:32 AM

because it's the second hand in the tourney opp is much more likely to be bad and/or spewing with Jx. Villain might be (subconciously perhaps) reasoning along the lines of, well i've invested 1 minute in this tourney and I've got top trips, if he's got me beat and i just call i have half a stack left i'd rather just be out or double up if I have the best hand. shove!

so I'd call river

locomi · 06-19-2012, 12:06 PM

being balanced against randoms on .fr shouln't be a concern at all..

River is nasty, would have a hard time folding in game

timetowom · 06-19-2012, 12:11 PM

Wouldn't JJ or at least JT raise the turn sometimes?

NeverScaredB · 06-19-2012, 12:35 PM

You guys saying we need to size bigger for value against overpairs realize the guy who called wasn't the flop raiser, right? He cold-called 3 with a player in between.

Alarm bells are ringing, Willie.

sufur · 06-19-2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kleath

woww

doubt anyone whos posted has played on .fr

still probably a fold but your definitely seeing worse here a noticable amount. Id call because **** em

yea, this, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clayton

i think 3betting flop is pretty unbalanced if you're following through with aggression on turns and rivers. unless of course you're the kind of guy who just piles 200 big blinds with airballs to get people to fold 3of a kind, but they dont know that.

and i've never played on .fr so maybe i'm underestimating the amount of chips people will put in with J9o here. the buyin being ~$200 leads me to believe you're not going to get a ton of derps who will just have the "call any" button with any jack, but again I could be wrong.

i feel like if the villain is competent then you shouldn't be taking this line. and if you think your villain is most likely bad, then you should be taking this line and snapping the river raise. 300bb oop against someone with a clue, I think a better course of action is coldcalling the flop raise, or 3betting the flop and checkraising/checkcalling the turn.

the turn bet is the most interesting part for me, i guess, because when you bet the turn you're basically saying that you're gonna keep betfolding, in theory, since you have the bottom of your value range 300bb deep oop and you're not getting bluffraised often enough. but that just gets into a cyclical self-debate of "is my opponent bad enough such that i can just pile in a lot and keep betfolding like live poker" at which point it's not unreasonable to widen your value range to the better trip jacks.

tl;dr without reads i dont like flop 3bet + the turn bet. flop coldcall or flop 3bet -> turn check feel better balance-wise (which is more valuable readless than something geared to be exploitative)

Quote:

Originally Posted by djk123

cold calling flop seems way more imbalanced than 3betting flop. not saying im going to be 3bet bluffing this flop very often, but i'd certainly be more likely to 3b bluff it than cold call float it

Quote:

Originally Posted by locomi

being balanced against randoms on .fr is ****ing bat**** crazy.

River is nasty, would have a hard time folding in game

fyp

This is a monthly 200e full of randoms on a euro site. You need a decent read to assume villain has half a brain.

river is really close. I'd be on the tracking sites after flop cold call but I guess you're not finding much, assuming stars doesn't allow tracking of .fr

Clayton · 06-20-2012, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djk123

cold calling flop seems way more imbalanced than 3betting flop. not saying im going to be 3bet bluffing this flop very often, but i'd certainly be more likely to 3b bluff it than cold call float it

This is correct, I'm just saying I like cold calling more than raising flop -> betting turn.

gusno432 · 06-20-2012, 09:25 AM

Like how you played it, river is a call against a random on stars.fr. There are more combos in his range that he does this with for value (AJ, Q9s, KJ?) and that you beat than has you beat (JT, JJ, J8s only 5 combos!) + I wouldn't completely rule out KQ here... Depending on SN of villain, things may change though...

LuckyScum · 06-22-2012, 01:42 PM

[ ] third nuts

MangoPort · 06-22-2012, 07:42 PM

Tough call. Early on his range is basically 100% of all hands pre-flop. I think you have to fold because what the heck does villain put YOU on? For those saying "Villain isn't putting OP on ANYTHING because he's a spewy random that isn't thinking", then you've answered your own question.

Fold, because you have absolutely no idea what villain has and you still have plenty of chips to play with in a donk fest.

I expect villain to have J10 100% of the time here.

grenzen · 06-22-2012, 10:40 PM

I like a call. Its strictly a gamble call. Frenchy doesnt get cute with the stone nuts till the river. I see Jx. Fade the board.

Chuck Bass · 06-24-2012, 12:54 PM

Thx for contribution everyone. What I learnt from this hand is my sizing sucked a fair bit and I should have planned to bomb turn shove river type of thing, would also have saved me from this troubling situation. I would share results but sadly I don't have them.

rrumsey182 · 06-25-2012, 12:22 AM

tbh why did this turn into a talk about being balanced and or unbalanced? Unless we have a reason to think we need to give an illusion of balance we can be as unbalanced as we want, people generally aren't good enough to realize this. Seems like you guys are out leveling yourselves. Anything we do is strong, but who cares against people who play poorly