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02-24-2017 , 11:42 PM
Very first hand at one of 6 opening flights at The Isle (FL) $360 200k. It's 11am on a Friday and I join an already in progress 4-handed table in the BB.

Starting stacks 25k, blinds 25/50. I'm very loosely profiling villain as a reg, but you never know around here. They probably think I'm a reg.

Anyway here I am in the big with AK. CO opens to 200. Button flats. I 3bet to 850. CO calls, button folds.

Flop: T63

I bet 1125, he calls.

Turn: J

I check, he bets 2200, I call.

River: 8

I check, he insta 5k

Thoughts:

Spoiler:
There are so many ways to play this turn. Lead/bomb a brick. c/r big. But feeling like we are too deep for the latter. His flop call is a bit troubling given he's doubtfully drawing with a naked heart. But sometimes it's just a float. JT is certainly in his range and getting raised would be gross. So without reads I guess I'll just play my hand face up then. Only problem is my line is easily exploitable on this river.

I've noticed when an average player in this spot bets the river quickly like that, in position, it's usually value. While I can't exactly give him credit for knowing this is a good steal spot, the only value hands I can see taking this line are flushes, sets, overpairs, JT. That's about it. Maybe value owning me with AT lol? But a lot of those hands are raising the flop or 4betting pre.
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02-25-2017 , 08:44 AM
3 bet bigger this deep OOP with a caller and 500 big blinds deep. I would make it 1000 minimum, anywhere from 1000-1400 is a good size. You should definitely be barreling turn, check/call here is pretty terrible as a line since what are you going to do if you hit on the river? Lead out? You're playing your range face up in that case. Don't mind mixing in a c/r on the turn once in a while but check/call is the worst option (besides folding), and you should be barreling turn the majority of the time, as you can value bet river on a heart, Q, K, or A, which is like almost half the deck. You get Villian to fold hands like 44-55 and 77-99 with a heart, probably even weak Tx. You can also easily call if he raises with the nut flush draw/gutshot.
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02-26-2017 , 04:42 AM
1300 pre.

I start with a check otf on monotone board quite deep. As played otf though I do like barreling turn over xc. You're rarely getting raised when you cont turn and there aren't too many bluffs you can induce by checking, esp. blocking Ah. You want to apply pressure ott to a bunch of one pair hands in his range.
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02-26-2017 , 11:02 AM
you should be the one betting 2200 ott.
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02-27-2017 , 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmpeFund
you should be the one betting 2200 ott.
+1
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02-27-2017 , 05:57 AM
Bet turn, easy c/f now. You have the Ah.
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02-27-2017 , 02:12 PM
Bigger pre b/c you are out of position and facing two opponents. Also don't mind a flat call. I think 3betting to the size that you did was the worst of your options.

The turn is a great card for you to barrel on as your equity is still pretty good. Check/calling caps your range and sets you up to get bluffed on the end. Now you pretty much have to make something in order to win the pot.

Last edited by Crazy Joe Davola; 02-27-2017 at 02:18 PM.
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02-27-2017 , 03:01 PM
God, I agree with everything everyone's saying in this thread. (OMG)
  • 3-bet pre is fine but sizing is way too small
  • Have to bet turn to put pressure on Tx and worse hands, although there's a reasonable chance we'll have to double barrel. If we x/c here turn we have to be prepared to bomb the river representing a trapped flush and I think that line is less likely to get our opponent to fold. We can rep more hands with turn and river leads.

As played there's almost zero value in anything other than folding on the river. You can't credibly c/r here because made flushes would've led turn or river trying to get value from top pair, two-pair or sets.

Last edited by jpgiro; 02-27-2017 at 03:23 PM.
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03-03-2017 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro
God, I agree with everything everyone's saying in this thread. (OMG)
Yeah, I really hated this hand the second it was over. Good lessons here, thanks for the responses.

Let's change the dynamic a little and say the opener was on the button, the SB flats and we have ATo in the BB. Would my 3bet sizing here be more appropriate? Or should we be flatting the majority of the time?

I ask because this very thing happened just as early and short in another mid-stakes tournament a few months ago. The button 4bet and we folded. Button showed a bluff and said something along the lines of "it just looked like you wanted it to be over with."
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03-03-2017 , 05:55 PM
3 bet pre size is fine. You are deep and bigger would be great, but lets be real, you aren't going to get a call when you make it 1,300 that often. You are really swinging for the fences by making it that big.

Flop fine, turn fine (I like a bet better than c/c), river is a fine to fold. Don't get crazy in this spot against an unknown. If you are against a stubborn T, what are you gonna do? What do you think the villain has that you beat? I mean best case is KQ with a heart or 45. But there are a lot of other 2 pair hands that the villain can have. They could already have a flush. There so few ways for a villain to get to the river with nothing. Unless there is some history of knowledge of his play, just chuck it and move on.

Last edited by PhatPots; 03-03-2017 at 06:01 PM.
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03-03-2017 , 06:49 PM
One other point I keep forgetting to make is: the reason for my turn check/call was more psychological / self level.

In the moment my thinking went like: this is a good turn card for my perceived range and if I barrel it will seem "obvious" to him that I have AK/AQ (maybe more probably with a heart since I'm happy to bet again), and as such he might get even more stubborn than usual. In short, I felt my fold equity was low and wanted to realize my true equity as cheaply as possible. That's a hell of a lot of deep thought for vs an unknown.

These paradoxical moments often lead me leveling myself into overthinking and making backwards plays.
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