That's cute... I just played pca and Biloxi, on my own $ rather than on bax/sheets' no less! I cashed for over 300k live in 08 and I still despise it.

I also think that high-volume grinding online (MTT or cash) is so mind-numbingly boring after a while that no one could possibly sustain it over a long period of time. How many online MTTers have been at or near the top of the rankings (or whatever metric you want to insert if you think the rankings are flawed) over a 5-year stretch like some of the top live MTTers have been during the same period?

I was directly quoting Jurollo's post where he said he would still be backed if he "hit for $1 million", and saying if that was the case, why would I (or anyone else) need to be backed.

Nonetheless, I was in much the same situation 2 1/2 years ago as others are now. I just stayed within my roll and ground it up. That's really what I would advise anyone else to do. I've probably said my piece on this for now. I expect sheets wants me to shut up at least ;-)

Because to grind up to comfortably play 10k's online is at the very least extremely difficult. I think UCLA might have said this but backing is very good for people that have other forms of income since it patches times when you don't get money from being backed. I think for most of 2p2 the fact is that if you could get a live only deal then you should jump on it and never let go because the number of people that could comfortably play 10k's all the time on their bankroll is a fairly minuscule subset of players. Not to mention that theoretically 50% of profits from live 10k's is >>>> Time loss and 100% of the profit from grinding up to a sufficient bankroll to play them (assuming a pretty realistic RoR)

P.S. I know this thread is about online tournaments, but even giving up online if you can play a lot live is usually worth it. If you want to play strictly online then go ahead and keep your action.

sorry if i took ur post out of context but it tilts me to no end when people say stuff like that. of course no one really wants to give away some % of their profits (btw it's not always 50/50) but sometimes it is the best option for certain individuals given their situation at that moment in time.

OK, I said I was done, and I'm honestly not trying to be the guy who always has the last word, but you've made some good counterpoints and I think it would be rude to ignore them.

For sure. You really need like $2 million to do it full time. It's like Jesse May said in Shut Up And Deal. You need so much money to be truly rolled for these games that, if you had it, you wouldn't need to play them. My question would be, is playing 10Ks really a good goal to have ?

Going back to the OP, my position would be that playing online MTTs is definitely a lot more feasible if you forget about the live circuit and the big TV score.

OK, if it's necessary. But once again, if your aim is to play online for a living then it's best to pre-empt these situations by not getting in them.

Horses for courses I suppose. Perhaps we can agree that if you're thinking about going down the backing road, think hard and make sure the terms are right for you and it's really going to help you achieve what it is that you want.

I have considered getting backed myself...not worrying bout the money and still playing almost everything but 100rs and 1ks, paying off my debt, etc. BUT I hate giving 1/2 profits away. The one thing someone told me bout backing is, is that ur basically giving away ur +EV in mtts that you can't play cuz ur underrolled. I don't think I'm +EV in the bigger mtts, so I just satty in or take shots til I get up there comfortably. But that's just another reason to consider why people are getting backed. Variance is high, takes forever to grind rolls, but they are +EV in mtts that are outside their rolls.

i kinda agree with what Gobbo is saying, im actually kind of worried in 09 if i ran bad live that i won't make any money. Its really hard for me to concentrate in mid stakes online tourneys. Shockingly im staked by Bax/Sheets, and have been for the past 16 months, it has been good for me, i went from a broke college kid to a "pro poker player," actually, im not sure if thats been good for me, but i hope so. I wish i could grind like SfD.

If you're having trouble grinding a ton I'd recommend doing a TLB prop-bet or something of that sort to get you grinding again. Make it worth grinding them!

Have to disagree with you gobbo, i think even a small-mid stakes grinder can make more than the average wage playing 4-5 days/nights a week with a modest br.

Just throwing some numbers around, but lets say someone who works hard on their game can attain 20% roi at $30 abi.

Playing an 8-hour session (note many grinders play 12 hour sessions "comfortably"), one can play about 30 tournaments per session if they are playing on 2 sites, playing just guaranteeds with, say, $5K-$50K prize pools.

That works out to $900/session turnover, at 4 sessions a week that's $3600/week, which at 20% roi would be $720/week.

That's not taking into account playing smaller fields like 180s/45s etc.

Going by the 100bi bankroll rule, it would also only require about $3K if we were sticking to $5-$100 tournaments, keeping our abi at around $30.

Granted $720/week is not a huge salary, but if it came down to working in an office/supermarket/etc or setting one's own hours doing something stimulating and enjoyable, I know which I would choose.

did sum1 just say its hard to beat the rake/expenses playing live mtts?1st of all thats why u play the friggin prelims secondly how the hell can u not have at least 50% 1 tabling a tournament with awful players niga is u crazy?thats like saying u cant obtain 50% roi 1 tabling the sunday million.i think almost every hsmtt reg can have 50% roi in most live 10k's.

Just wanted to say a big TY for this thread, lot of good info especially uclabruinz and ImaLucSac posts.

they were talking about paying for expenses as a part of the rake (flight/hotel etc)

The reduction of variance by simply cranking up volume is overrated. You
need to quadruple your volume to cut your variance in half. Nevertheless,
your two extremes make sense but not only because of volume.
Bond and shaundeeb also play lower stakes where their ROI is higher which in turn will shorten downswings. This and smaller field sizes are the things that really help.

this thread was prolly started cus of me

so ill chime in with a quick............online sucks, live owns