Hi,

Been going over this hand with a guy I've played 100s of hours with so far live. This game's a weekly one we play online.

Would greatly appreciate your input on whether you think the flop call is good or dreadful!

He's UTG — tendencies: TAG, risk averse.

When he bets here OTT, he has it, with very few bluffs. (2p+, AK)

I'm perceived loose end of TAG and tricky. Probably over-bluff, as population overfolds. If I hit river here, I will get paid 100%.

Villain (UTG) $13,300 (162BB)
Hero (UTG+2) $7,800 (97.5BB) -- 109
BB $10,900 (136BB)

Blinds $40/80 - ante $10

Villain opens UTG $240
Hero UTG+2 calls 10 9
BB calls

Flop — pot $850

Q 6 A

Villian ($13,000) bets $560
Hero ($7,500) calls 10 9
BB calls

Turn — $2,500

UTG ($12,400)
Hero ($7,000) 10 9
BB $10,100

Q 6 A 8

UTG bets $2,500
Hero calls
(We have direct odds to call, with 30% equity against a set and 32% against top two.)
BB folds

Thoughts on including 10 9 here in our flop calling range?

I felt like there's a lot of cards that improve us OTT and when we hit it's very disguised.

(Would greatly appreciate input on what sorts of hands we should continue with that aren't sets, pairs, and heart flush draws, if any, so we're not overfolding v. a cbet.)

I don't like the flop call. First you are not completing the action. Second, your hand just doesn't have enough equity to continue. Your back door aren't to the nuts, except for 8,7 (no hearts) You hit the one card in the deck that gives you enough equity to call the turn for a pot sized bet.

Sure, your implied odds will be good if you do hit the straight now, but remember you caught the single best card in the deck. I'd rather have hands like overcards and backdoor nut flush draws to put more money in the pot, something like AJ on a T93 board with backdoor nut flush is more like it.

In 3 way pots you don't have to call a cbet as often, especially when not completing the action. If you want to add hands to call other than those mentioned, you can certainly add KJ KT of spades.

One other point, this flop favors the preflop raiser's hand. He is supposed to be able to cbet this flop frequently.

Thanks — that's useful.

Other cards that improve us:

8 is deffo a gin card here, but J operates almost the same as the 8 here. It's may actually be a better card, in making UTG (a cautious player) slow down more OTT, I think — particularly with hands like AK/Ax.

Given that the BB can also call behind, we may also be getting the right price to continue on a 7 ~25% equity here (FD + gutter), with this villain almost certain to call a river bet. Any that doesn't bring a OESD/gutter is 20% equity — in tourney play, this probs is too spewy to call though perhaps. In cash, seems you get the right implied odds to call (I think).

We also have enough equity to continue with a K.

I agree though, I think, unless UTG slows down OTT (which he has a tendency to do), perhaps this is too wide a call, even if we're putting in only 1/16th of our stack here OTF.

Interesting to hear others' thoughts. For me, in the moment, I thought having the hearts out improved the situation, especially as the spade was the Ace, but in retrospect, it probably can kill some action such that we might not be able to bet river when a heart comes and completes the straight, such as an 8 7 runout here.

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Put the board here, and the hand, so it's easier to reference for a reader:

10:spade 9:spade (UTG+2 v. UTG, BB)
Q 6 A (Turn was a 8)

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Will post result if anyone interested.

Here is another way to think about it. You really only have 2 or 3 cards that give you significant equity.

Would you have called the flop with a pair of 4s? That has 2 chances of improving, but you improve to a made hand. Here, you improved to a very good draw.

Also note you are hoping the BB calls the turn. What if he jams? There go your odds. If he does call, his hand screams heart draw, there go 2 of your outs. You also have very little in the way of implied odds from the BB. One other not so pleasant thought is that the BB might have peeled the flop with KQ or QJ of spades. Now his pair picks up a better flush draw than yours.

I am reminded of a line from Apollo 13; winning this hand is like trying to drive a toaster through a car wash.

is this an MTT?...assuming it is b/c asking advice on a cash hand (from MTT plyrs) would be kinda like asking someone from South America how to bake a souffle.

flop call is def losing at this eff stack depth...as played turn is an easy call with like ~30% equity (u could shove if vill b/f's AJ;ATs.)

I don't hate it in all honesty, but Obv it's his UTG range being likely very narrow which is the concern, if his position was mp /co and you were co/ bb ect and declined the chance to 3bet, the float on the flops chances of picking the pot up on the turn vs his flop stab and check improves due to his range widening pre.

There will be some chance of stealing the pot on the river all the same, again this chance increases as his range widens as above, which will be interesting given , the size you'll have to use to steal vs how many combos he can check fold, vs the frequency he c/c 'S vs your busted draws.

Shows your thinking, regardless , bravo!

UTG pots the turn with 2 2-flushes. It is unlikely this is just top pair. He likely has AA/QQ/88/66/AK/AQ. Easy call and hope to get paid off, particularly on straight.

Flop call is donk play. You hit the perfect turn card and still only have a decent draw with one card to come. Equity is poor, hitting a pair may not be good, and this is not a good situation to float with the idea of bluffing.

pf is loose/ kinda meh probably losing
flop peel is ambitious at best

Pre-flop call UTG+2 calling open raise puts you in position to have to fold to a re-raise/squeeze, but trivial amount relative to stack so I'm fine with call here with promising cards and position on original raiser.

Flop call is just throwing away chips. Only possible line is looking to bluff on a turned heart -- you're basically playing out a total bluff since there is virtually no turn/river combo with which you can reasonably expect to make the best hand absent an absolute miracle.

Fold after non-heart flop to that bet 100% of the time.

Haha – I'm sure he'd like this in berating me; will pass this on!

I think in general you want to have at least one overcard to the board, and these Axx boards are just the worst candidates for something like this. Something like Js9s on Ts5x4x and I'm not hatin'.

Anyway, I mainly wanted to point out a potential logical fallacy here:
So you're viewed as someone who clicks buttons and likes to float and bluff. With this image you decide to float with T9 on AQx. Yet you're also convinced that if you somehow do hit a backdoor, you're always going to get paid. If your river bets aren't expected to get folds and all you have is backdoors, floating flop with ~10% equity probably isn't a very good idea DUCY?

Wrt to the flop, we're going to have so many better combos to call with that we don't really need to introduce backdoors here. I think in this spot it's ok to just call with heart draws and pairs+, and maybe add some gutshots with backdoor spades.

Plus we're in a three way pot against a UTG open where the board hits his range pretty hard, so we probably shouldn't be defending our range vs. c-bets nearly as often.

The straight draw here is a backdoor to a gutter. I like to have a backdoor to an open ender when taking this type of floating line. So instead of the Q, i'd look for the flop to have an 8 or a J. That doubles the number of turn cards that give you a straight draw. It also doubles your straight outs to actually get there on the river.

All of that said I wouldn't like floating the float in this spot even with a 3 straight to go with the 3 flush. The presence of the other player makes it harder to win with a bluff/semi-bluff on the tun, the villain is described as TAG so that reduces our implied odds, and we're not deep enough.