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Betgo vs Munk official thread. Betgo vs Munk official thread.

12-17-2012 , 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakinC00kies
Yes, cEV is clearly closer to $EV than with flat payouts but ICM still optimizes your decisions.
Well that was what Betgo was saying. You agree with him.

Do you agree with Borgata/stealthmunk that raise folding TT was unprofitable with the sb on 14% ? Bear in mind that he was ignoring "skill edges" and possible benefits not included in the prize money when he first posted this.
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 02:43 AM
All this time I was wasting
Hoping you would come around
I've been giving out chances every time
And all you do is let me down

And it's taking me this long
Baby but I figured you out
And you're thinking we'll be fine again
But not this time around

You don't have to call anymore
I won't pick up the phone
This is the last straw
Don't wanna hurt anymore

And you can say that you're sorry
But I don't believe you baby
Like I did before
You're not sorry, no, no, no, no

Looking so innocent
I might believe you if I didn't know
Could've loved you all my life
If you hadn't left me waiting in the cold

And you got your share of secrets
And I'm tired of being last to know
And now you're asking me to listen
Cause it's worked each time before

But you don't have to call anymore
I won't pick up the phone
This is the last straw
Don't wanna hurt anymore

And you can tell me that you're sorry
But I don't believe you baby
Like I did before
You're not sorry, no, no, oh
You're not sorry, no, no, oh

You had me falling for you honey
And it never would've gone away, no
You used to shine so bright
But I watched all of it fade

So you don't have to call anymore
I won't pick up the phone
This is the last straw
There's nothing left to beg for

And you can tell me that you're sorry
But I don't believe you baby
Like I did before
You're not sorry, no, no, oh
You're not sorry, no, no, oh
No, oh, no, oh, no oh
Whoa, no, no
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo
Also, Cwoc meant r/c rather than r/f just now.
I meant raise fold. Here are Borgata's/stealth's precise words :

"My advice was limp Because you can't r/f profitably"

So he thinks raise folding TT is unprofitable and his further advice was hero should fold to the shove as the sb was shoving 14% which makes calling -$ev. He's definitely wrong on the first count and probably wrong on the second but you can argue about PP's shoving range forever if you want to.
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
Well that was what Betgo was saying. You agree with him.
Betgo said that payjumps counteract ICM which is completely false as payjumps are a part of ICM and lead to finding a solution. As you don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying I'll just say that ICM is mostly based on payjumps and therefore it doesn't matter how steep or flat the payjumps are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cwocwoc
Do you agree with Borgata/stealthmunk that raise folding TT was unprofitable with the sb on 14% ? Bear in mind that he was ignoring "skill edges" and possible benefits not included in the prize money when he first posted this.
It's 7:52AM, I am highly intoxicated and yet able to, as opposed to you, form a rational thought without struggle.
How high do you think the chances are that I will open Pokerstove to put in a 14% range of hands, scribble down the ICM calculation and agree or disagree with your statement? Give me a number.


Also since both of you seem to be pretty drawing dead at making money with poker, maybe you can make a video of you guys sucking eachother off?
I bet some sites will pay a few hundred bucks for that, better than nothing!
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 03:02 AM
He saying raise fold TT if Sb shoves only 15% is profitable which is likely true, should be true with atc not that we should open atc
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 03:06 AM
LOCK IT UP
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakinC00kies
Betgo said that payjumps counteract ICM which is completely false as payjumps are a part of ICM and lead to finding a solution.
Let me explain it simpler.

"coun·ter·act (kountr-kt)
tr.v. coun·ter·act·ed, coun·ter·act·ing, coun·ter·acts
To oppose and mitigate the effects of by contrary action"

[High] payout jumps counteract [mitigate the effecs of] ICM.

And so they do the higher the payout jumps the closer cEV is to $EV.
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 03:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGClayDol
He saying raise fold TT if Sb shoves only 15% is profitable which is likely true, should be true with atc not that we should open atc
He is saying the opposite. He says don't raise fold TT as it is unprofitable. It's not atc here as there is some, ahem ICM to consider, but it's a lot wider than TT !
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 03:16 AM
I was saying what you were saying, and confirmed you're correct
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 03:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakinC00kies
How high do you think the chances are that I will open Pokerstove to put in a 14% range of hands, scribble down the ICM calculation and agree or disagree with your statement? Give me a number.
I think you are confusing the first action with calling the shove. I am talking about whether Hansen can raise and then fold profitably with TT. OMGClayDol understands that. We all agree that the break-even for calling the shove is 14% - 15%.
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGClayDol
I was saying what you were saying, and confirmed you're correct
Fair enough ! I knew that a good stter/180 type would understand !
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 03:38 AM
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 03:42 AM
I'm sure cookies understands too
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 04:06 AM
I have had enough of this and will try to not post in this thread and definitely not anything else in this forum. In fact, I will try to post less on 2+2 like everyone else has.

I need to concentrate on my unprofitable play and coaching my students who are too donkish to realize how bad I am.

I remember when this forum was created, there was a discussion of having a list of approved posters. I joked that I might not be on it as a lot of people didn't like my posts in the single "MTT" forum as registrar implied. Someone told me, no I was one of the first on the list that the mod, the guy who does the "Raw Deal" on WPT shows, was making up. So I have been posting here from the beginning. There have been a lot of changes since then with the 2nd split, changes in style of play, changes in what I play, and my coaching listing. So I guess I stayed here way to long. Goodbye.
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakinC00kies
Yeah?






Mostly this:



I'm sure about 98% of posters in MSMTT+ will agree with that statement but either don't care or don't want to be 'mean'.
What's most annoying about your posts isn't their presence, no, you're free to post whatever you want; it's the fact that they all are incredibly vague and you're doing a great job on avoiding actually saying something useful.

The perfect example for this is this line, as it can be found in so many of betgo's post:
"We're getting about 7.27:1 on a call in the Big Blind here, so we should get in a New York Backraise".
No one in MS-/HSMTT has actually even wasted a rational thoughts about calculating Pot Odds in complex spots like the ones you like to comment on.
Instead of actually drawing a conclusion in one of your 24,000+ posts you post random mathematical facts trying to look smart when in fact no one, literally no one ends up being even a tiny bit smarter than they were before.
99% of your posts serve no purpose and often ruin a valueable discussion about an initally interesting spot.

Munk didn't berate you for the sole fact that you still post; he was (for a very good reason) very annoyed about the way you post and even more about the non-existent content of your posts.
Either way, keep living in your dream world and spewing off posts full off non-sense in HSMTT, I'm sure you'll find at least one or two idiots who actually believe you.



FREE STEALTHMUNK
haHA THIS GUY IS A COMPLETE AROGANT PUNK THATS ON THE RAIL LOOKING FOR A BUYIN WHEN YOU GO TO VEGAS LOOK AROUND YOU HAVE COMPANY RIGHT NEXT TO YOU ON THE RAIL!!!

Last edited by bigsid; 12-17-2012 at 04:34 AM. Reason: IM ON THE RAIL NEED A COACH?
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo
I have had enough of this and will try to not post in this thread and definitely not anything else in this forum. In fact, I will try to post less on 2+2 like everyone else has.

I need to concentrate on my unprofitable play and coaching my students who are too donkish to realize how bad I am.

I remember when this forum was created, there was a discussion of having a list of approved posters. I joked that I might not be on it as a lot of people didn't like my posts in the single "MTT" forum as registrar implied. Someone told me, no I was one of the first on the list that the mod, the guy who does the "Raw Deal" on WPT shows, was making up. So I have been posting here from the beginning. There have been a lot of changes since then with the 2nd split, changes in style of play, changes in what I play, and my coaching listing. So I guess I stayed here way to long. Goodbye.
officially made my day.

now to bring back munk
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 12:54 PM
Just want to summarize the problems from my perspective. Will try not to reply further. Stealthmunk engaged in a campaign of harassment and defamation against me. I think it is unfair to say that I got him banned. Anyone else would have gotten banned a lot faster. I am also fine with his being reinstated on 2+2 to post about strategy. Here are a few points, not sure the order is perfect.

-- He wrote extremely long replies to everything, like he had unlimited time on his hand. I gather this guy is the best poster here, so isn't his time more valuable? I have questions about his emotional state.
-- He quoted an article from a site I do videos for and presented it as my article. I didn't write the article and have never read it. I agree it seems pretty bad. Then other people are still quoting it as my article.
-- He stated that a student of mine was unhappy with my coaching, asked for a refund, and I instead demanded a favorable review. I produced logs showing the student acted thrilled with my coaching and volunteered he would post in my thread. I said "sure, please post". The student then was looking for staking from a friend of Stealthmunk's and apparently misreprented things hoping to ingratiate himself and a misunderstanding developed. Stealthmunk posted these false and libelous statements, and did not appologize when they were shown to be false, but continued his attacks.
-- I made comments by which I meant that due to payout jumps and pot odds, $EV was closer to cEV. I probably used the wrong words and Stealthmunk takes it as evidence that I totally don't understand ICM and lied in my coaching listing when I implied I knew ICM.
-- He quoted from the OP to my coaching listing 2 years ago. He says that no good player would say such things and I am an incompetent who preys on weak players.
-- He made a half page post in my coaching listing. I just skimmed it, but I think he says I am an incompetent coach and offers free coaching to any of my students to correct the erroreous information I may have given them
-- He made many further long posts in the thread where they moved his attacks on me in the coaching listing and replies. He continued to falsely defame and libel my coaching services.
-- I never had a negative post in my coaching thread except from him.
-- He made repeated long posts in various threads stating or implying that I am an incompetent coach, a fraud, charlatan, a professional coach, and not a winning player. All of this is completely false. I am not going to reply to it again here.
-- He posts about starting a website to warn people about my awful coaching. What does he really know about my coaching?
-- He got tempbanned after posting something saying metaphorically that someone would soon shoot me, in addition to everything else he had posted.
-- He doesn't really know me and launches into these attacks.
-- It makes no sense that I would have the highest ROI in a game before BF and now cannot make money at poker and so resort to fraudulant and incompetent coaching. Everyone knows what happened with BF, and that everyone, including Stealthmunk has had to adapt to the situation.
-- If I was that much of a moron, would mastr (Scott Seiver) have taken me as a regular student for a year, and DudeofLife and Yugiohpro (jjkkyy) have regularly exchanged HHs with me?
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo
Just want to summarize the problems from my perspective. Will try not to reply further. Stealthmunk engaged in a campaign of harassment and defamation against me. I think it is unfair to say that I got him banned. Anyone else would have gotten banned a lot faster. I am also fine with his being reinstated on 2+2 to post about strategy. Here are a few points, not sure the order is perfect.

-- He wrote extremely long replies to everything, like he had unlimited time on his hand. I gather this guy is the best poster here, so isn't his time more valuable? I have questions about his emotional state.
-- He quoted an article from a site I do videos for and presented it as my article. I didn't write the article and have never read it. I agree it seems pretty bad. Then other people are still quoting it as my article.
-- He stated that a student of mine was unhappy with my coaching, asked for a refund, and I instead demanded a favorable review. I produced logs showing the student acted thrilled with my coaching and volunteered he would post in my thread. I said "sure, please post". The student then was looking for staking from a friend of Stealthmunk's and apparently misreprented things hoping to ingratiate himself and a misunderstanding developed. Stealthmunk posted these false and libelous statements, and did not appologize when they were shown to be false, but continued his attacks.
-- I made comments by which I meant that due to payout jumps and pot odds, $EV was closer to cEV. I probably used the wrong words and Stealthmunk takes it as evidence that I totally don't understand ICM and lied in my coaching listing when I implied I knew ICM.
-- He quoted from the OP to my coaching listing 2 years ago. He says that no good player would say such things and I am an incompetent who preys on weak players.
-- He made a half page post in my coaching listing. I just skimmed it, but I think he says I am an incompetent coach and offers free coaching to any of my students to correct the erroreous information I may have given them
-- He made many further long posts in the thread where they moved his attacks on me in the coaching listing and replies. He continued to falsely defame and libel my coaching services.
-- I never had a negative post in my coaching thread except from him.
-- He made repeated long posts in various threads stating or implying that I am an incompetent coach, a fraud, charlatan, a professional coach, and not a winning player. All of this is completely false. I am not going to reply to it again here.
-- He posts about starting a website to warn people about my awful coaching. What does he really know about my coaching?
-- He got tempbanned after posting something saying metaphorically that someone would soon shoot me, in addition to everything else he had posted.
-- He doesn't really know me and launches into these attacks.
-- It makes no sense that I would have the highest ROI in a game before BF and now cannot make money at poker and so resort to fraudulant and incompetent coaching. Everyone knows what happened with BF, and that everyone, including Stealthmunk has had to adapt to the situation.
-- If I was that much of a moron, would mastr (Scott Seiver) have taken me as a regular student for a year, and DudeofLife and Yugiohpro (jjkkyy) have regularly exchanged HHs with me?
I THOUGHT YOU SAID GOODBYE 876876986536458936 TIMES. GO PEDAL YOUR WEARS ELSEWHERE!

FREE THE BEAR JEW
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 01:44 PM
so is betgo the reason that SSMTT's are so beatable these days? cheers betgo
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo
The points weren't presented rationally as far as I can tell. It was like quoting stuff from my OP 2 years ago and saying no good coach would say that. It is kind of ridiculous for him to say I am a bad coach based on what? I didn't know what to respond to.
He made his point well and clearly. Nobody but you had trouble understanding his points. That you wouldn't even take the time to read his posts completely much less understand them speaks a severe lack of professionalism.

Again, the reason his attacks were allowed to continue was because you failed to refute them. Just restating over and over again that they are false, does not make them false.

His ban had nothing to do with his attacks of you and only to do w the Sklansky's [justified] fear and hatred of even the jokiest death threats/wishes and his subsequent meltdown.

Every reasonable and unbiased person that read the thread before Mat got involved was on his side. This isn't lost on you, is it?
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 05:51 PM
Betgo, now would be a good time to let it be. Im not taking any position on anything, just saying that you are not going to gain anything by continuing. This saga has gone on for long enough. Just my 2 cents.
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-17-2012 , 07:13 PM


Spoiler:
just walk away
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-18-2012 , 06:46 AM
Agree with cwocwoc that either r/f is profitable, if villain is reshoving tight enough (apparently 15% is the cutoff) - in which case we can profitably r/f hella wide, or r/c is profitable (if he reshoves wide enough - over 15%). That doesn't mean that limping couldn't be even better, but w/e.

Still interested in the background that shows that there is a Nash Equilibrium that states that our 2.8x opening range in this spot with these stacks is exactly 25%.
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-18-2012 , 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakinC00kies
Betgo said that payjumps counteract ICM which is completely false as payjumps are a part of ICM and lead to finding a solution. As you don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying I'll just say that ICM is mostly based on payjumps and therefore it doesn't matter how steep or flat the payjumps are.



It's 7:52AM, I am highly intoxicated and yet able to, as opposed to you, form a rational thought without struggle.
How high do you think the chances are that I will open Pokerstove to put in a 14% range of hands, scribble down the ICM calculation and agree or disagree with your statement? Give me a number.


Also since both of you seem to be pretty drawing dead at making money with poker, maybe you can make a video of you guys sucking eachother off?
I bet some sites will pay a few hundred bucks for that, better than nothing!
i think i love u
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote
12-18-2012 , 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakinC00kies
Also since both of you seem to be pretty drawing dead at making money with poker, maybe you can make a video of you guys sucking eachother off?
I bet some sites will pay a few hundred bucks for that, better than nothing!
most aggro line i've ever seen you take
Betgo vs Munk official thread. Quote

      
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