When I'm gone, ya'll can think of whenever you see Betgo's 'see my coaching listing' and thank mat sklansky for his brilliant moderator work.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55...3/index13.html

This is the thread in ATF. Many of Stealmunk's (BorgataGrinder85's) posts have been deleted by the mods. I think the mods have been extremely tolerant in allowing this defamation campaign to continue as long as it did. I gather Stealth is still posting under different names, although many have been banned.

I appologize to HSMTT. Obviously, I should not have been posting here, particularly with the coaching listing thing. Wasn't aware how things come accross. Will not post strategy in this forum again accept as an OP of a HSMTT or if I play these regularly. Know I pissed other people off including lissi. I don't know what I was doing. I made a bad mistake. Obviously, I was not looking for coaching business in this forum and the message came up automatically, but hard to explain this to Stealthmunk and perhaps others.

Stealmunk has engaged in a campaign of harassment and defamation against me. I am well qualified to coach what I coach, and do not represent my services as anything they are not. As mentioned, I had an 18% ROI in $16/18s in 2011 up until BF, and next highest ROI was 13%. Obviously, I was planning on moving up in stakes and hoping to do real well.

I have excellent MTT results back when the games were soft, including 300% ROI in quarterly/yearly tournaments like WCOOP and FTOPS based primarily on 3 about equal sized big scores. So I think I am well qualified to coach at the level I do. Certainly I would be a reasonable coach for a 18-player turbo reg, a low stakes MTT grinder, or certainly and amateur MTT or MTTSNG player. All this talk about fraud etc. is ridiculous and defamatory.

Like Stealthmunk I have had to adjust to the situation after BF and have not always made the best choices.

I really think Stealthmunk is a great player. I hope he continues to post strategy here after the week. I also hope he finds a way to realize more of the success he had before BF.

Why don't you just play on the sites that allow American players ?

betgo,

Are you an ICM expert? If your answer is yes, can you please provide some sort of detailed backing to that fact?

Thanks.

If the end result here is that munk has a couple of days to cool off, and betgo reduces his posting frequency in hsmtt dramatically, I think it is a good one.

2p2 without munk just aint the same.

I feel like this is an interogation. This is what I said in the OP to my coaching thread 2 years ago. I did not say I am an ICM expert. I do know how to adapt to situation late in MTTSNGs based on ICM considerations and other factors. As the other poster said, I would have to understand ICM to have a 5% better ROI than anyone else in $16/18s. There is a difference between knowing how to take ICM considerations into account and being an expert on ICM. I am not an expert on ICM calculations. I did not claim to be an expert on ICM.

Thank you. I only asked because it seemed to be the most valid critique he had and I hadn't seen you respond to it. I have only read the atf thread and this one though the atf thread had several quoted posts from the other.

But yes, I think all coaches offering their services on 2p2 should be subject to at least some level of "interrogation". And you're unwillingness to respond to his critiques beyond "this isn't fair, he is trolling, I am a good coach" was pretty ugly and a big reason the public sentiment has been mostly against you.

from:Awkward/Absurd WSOP ME Spot OOP.

There is some very relevant history to this hand.

I am two to the left of villain. He's a very large Detroit Tigers douchey looking scumbag with what appears to be fake jewelery and a scumbag friend of his sweating him. From the second he sat down at the table, I was disgusted to share the earth with him and was looking forward to taking his chips. He is somewhat chatty saying very idiotic stuff, berating other players, commenting on raise sizes, while obviously having no clue whatsoever. For example CO 5xd (standard for my table) button flats 9Ts, he flats bb...778r checked around turn 9 and Tigers scumbag fires 3k at 4500....they check check 5 river button has 9Ts and scumbag has pocket 4s and he started questioning the dudes calling of 1500 with T9s saying its hard to give him credit for that. He also seems to overvalue "big aces" and keeps talking about having a "big ace" and missing flops with them. He was quite the stabber at pots and aggressively mashed a lot of buttons while having no clue what he was doing, like everyone but 2 others at my table. (4 people have busted....in all seriousness if I ever have money I wouldn't sell at 3.5:1 markup for ME this is a joke)

In level 1 I've 3bet him two or three times and he check folded the flop. (Missed pairmines) He also Raised CO, I call sb. Check Check AJ3r, turn 7 i check call 2/3 pot, river 9 ck ck I announce "7" he shows 69o (wp bud)

At 150-300 no ante he makes it 800 in the hijack I make it 2100 on the button with 89ss. He calls. Flop comes KsJsJx he check calls 1500. Turn Ace, he check calls 4000 relatively quickly. River is a brick he checks I give up, he shows K2o. I tell him he played the hand to the perfection and called him an idiot many times. He called me an internet player and said "don't act like I don't know what your doing coming in every pot I've raised." I assure him that he has no clue what is going on and he is just an idiot getting very lucky. He puts on his beats though because he can't take the heat.

First hand from dinner break I start hand with 13k. UTG 1 makes it 700, K2o detroit tigers scumbag flats, I make it 2200, utg1 agonizing folds...tigers calls and I say nice call, playing well, and ask him if he has K2o? He check folds 667r. I tap the table and say well played nice hand as I scoop the pot. Probably call him an idiot a couple more times and thank him for not stopping donating to me.

Then this hand happens, he raises to 800 at 150-300 ante from MP. I flat the CO or HIJ I forget. As soon as I flat he says "everytime." I immediately snap back with "I got to attack the idiots, if you are trying to give it away what am I supposed to do, fold?" Another person comes along to the Q63ss flop. He bets 2k I make it 5100 with 11-12k behind and he tanks for a minute. I snap call the clock on him. He folds.

Just a couple hands later a 90/10 zynga poker fish limps in who has 5x/7xd/4x potted with air/whole arsenal... and another guy limps, and K2o genius makes it 1400 on the button. I have 21k ish to start the hand. I have AKo in the BB. I opt to make it 5500. Thoughts on sizing here? Its really awkward playing OOP in the softest tourney of the year vs someone trying to give there chips to you but also incapable of 4betting light as shown in previous hands. Anyways, as he tanks I say again "got to attack the idiots." He says something about me goading him, and then calls. (lol) Q9Tr. Whats our play/plan for hand now on various runouts?

Bonus question: Should I have 3barreled the JJKA board vs this monkey? I feel like if I 3barrel I have to overbet shove and wasn't quite ready to hit the showers in case he actually had a jack. I had 30k at that hand to start I believe.

heres my reply
I would have flatted the AK from the bb. Your implied odds are increased greatly if you hit the flop. The raise looks like a JJ,KK hand. Now you are locked into a cbet on any board regardless.

I realize this is the 2012 main event, but there are still players whose holy grail is 9 10 J Q drawing hands and these guys kinda fit that profile, so what to do with this flop...?

Insta-shove or insta-check, leaning towards the check and hoping to improve somehow. I think any drawing hand may go along for another card. Any made hand wont. I think any sized bets is just running the wrong way to the goal line.
Enjoyed the running commentary for sure.

here's your rude remark/reply
amazing the advice ITT, flat pre, locked into cbet on any board regardless? wtf? 9TQr is one of worst boards possible for me. Just because you are unlucky and get a board that smacks the idiots range doesn't mean your locked into betting.

Then a few days later this:
A couple good players have told me I should flat pre. Seems really awkward oop with one definite maybe 2 other callers...but definitely tons more value if I hit a pair.

I actually think preflop is really interesting in the options given in the main event where chips/tourney life are so important. Can see merit for calling/reraising to any particular sizing >3800. And I think his range is pretty well defined...just being OOP with these stacks and no pair is awkward and while he obv is crushed by my TT+AK range or w/e....galfond bucks don't mean much in the one monstrous tourney a year

I still don't know whats optimal in this spot. I do know that as played I have to ck down flop though.

Steve, stealth, munk, whoever you are, I wouldn't ask anyone to bring you back, let alone demand.

Do you even have a clue whats happened in the USA the last few days, and how totally turned off people are about self righteous, intelligent, non caring ego maniacs? If your not sure what I mean, then ask a couple of good players.

His whole tone was extremely rude and insulting. I am willing to answer questions about my coaching, but he calls by a fraud, moron, etc. The mods deleted it, but a few minutes ago he was back as Stealthmunk27 calling me an idiot. They deleted it in another thread where a few minutes ago Stealthmunk whatever was talking about how I scam students called me a leach and cancer, etc.

He finally got banned when people in the other thread were saying he was whipping a dead horse and he replied I was a horse limping on one leg and would soon be shot.

This thread

Just because he is a dick doesn't make his criticisms any less valid or worthy of a response. It just means he is a dick.

He kept me busy yesterday just answering false statements and misrepresentations. Tried not to feed the troll, but I didn't feel I could let all that stuff go unanswered.

He had huge amount of time of his hands, sitting in his parents' attic all day causing trouble on 2+2. I really hope he gets funds so he can play and keep busy.

You didn't actually respond though. You just kept saying "he is lying, I am a good coach, I offer a good service" without actually refuting his points.

+1 mirrion

The points weren't presented rationally as far as I can tell. It was like quoting stuff from my OP 2 years ago and saying no good coach would say that. It is kind of ridiculous for him to say I am a bad coach based on what? I didn't know what to respond to.

I probably should have responded more to his discussion of ICM. I was respected for mathematical posts in this forum back in the day, which was more recent when I posted that 2 years ago. I am not an expert in ICM theory, but I think I am good at understand how i,portant ICM considerations are in different MTTSNG situations. Also, I understand how ICM calculations may ignore the value of obtaining a big stack, the need to use proper ranges in making those calculations and so on. What I stated in the OP 2 years ago was accurate to my understanding.

Also, as mentioned, I had top results in MTTSNGs before BF, and I attribute that partly to an understanding of the mathematics involved in short stack play, as well having deep stack experience and playing a much less ABC game than most of the regs.

You may disagree about my qualifications, but I presented them honestly to my understanding, and I am certainly not a fraud.

I feel bad about all this and feel partly responsible. I think I made a number of mistakes, such as posting here. I also could have tried harder to diffuse it.

I hope Stealthmunk is allowed back on to discuss strategy, and will express that to the mods.

munk is a hero. don't ever leave us in HSMTT with just betgo for company.

oh, and betgo stop being a ****ing ******, dying would also be an acceptable outcome

Yeah?




Mostly this:

I'm sure about 98% of posters in MSMTT+ will agree with that statement but either don't care or don't want to be 'mean'.
What's most annoying about your posts isn't their presence, no, you're free to post whatever you want; it's the fact that they all are incredibly vague and you're doing a great job on avoiding actually saying something useful.

The perfect example for this is this line, as it can be found in so many of betgo's post:
"We're getting about 7.27:1 on a call in the Big Blind here, so we should get in a New York Backraise".
No one in MS-/HSMTT has actually even wasted a rational thoughts about calculating Pot Odds in complex spots like the ones you like to comment on.
Instead of actually drawing a conclusion in one of your 24,000+ posts you post random mathematical facts trying to look smart when in fact no one, literally no one ends up being even a tiny bit smarter than they were before.
99% of your posts serve no purpose and often ruin a valueable discussion about an initally interesting spot.

Munk didn't berate you for the sole fact that you still post; he was (for a very good reason) very annoyed about the way you post and even more about the non-existent content of your posts.
Either way, keep living in your dream world and spewing off posts full off non-sense in HSMTT, I'm sure you'll find at least one or two idiots who actually believe you.



FREE STEALTHMUNK

I also do not want Stealthmunk permabanned and will express that to the mods. Again, I feel partly responsible for the situation and am sorry.

I will not post in HSMTT anymore, except for this thread and maybe not that for long.

I did not write the NY Backraise article. I explained that before.

As far as the statement in my coaching OP that I had solved mathematical issues in this forum, I wrote that 2 years ago refering to like 5 years ago when there was discussion of who were the best posters here and someone said "betgo is awesome when he breaks down the math". I will change that if I can. I meant it sincerely, but Stealthmunk took it like I was a fraud or something.

I will try to post as little as possible more on this here or elsewhere.

Mostly quoting this to be able to use my favorite .gif again:



You're not sorry.
If you were sorry, you wouldn't have called Munk out for "attacking" you and/or your coaching listing; you wouldn't have pretended to feel threatened by his metaphor about the limping dog.

It is also very annoying and almost insulting that you always pretend to be sorry and apologize profusely when criticized even though, at least in the past, you've simply been ignoring the points other posters have brought up.

I don't have a personal Vendetta against you but I felt it was about time to actually write down where and why I disapprove of your posts so much.


Sorry if I crossed a line somewhere, GL in the future

But Betgo was right. There is less of an ICM factor when the pay jumps are large and the pot odds made it more of a call. .

On the other hand this is wrong. Not slightly wrong but way out wrong as Stealthmuk/Borgata put the sb on 14% as well.

Stealthmunk/Borgata

"..... you can't r/f profitably"

(with TT from the button with sb on 14%)

As for "non-existent content" that must cover at least 80% of all the posts on the site lol. Please confine your response to discussion of the hand as this was borgata/stealthmunk's "proof" of whatever it was he was trying to prove.

Not sure if you are trolling or just plain stupid.

Either way, as Munk and others have pointed out before, ICM is THE model that allows us to convert a cEV spot into a $EV spot and therefore accounts for any payjump. As ICM dictates the equity we need to call it of in any spot it is absolutely no challenge to figure out if we get the right pot odds or not, therefore making your argument invalid.
If we think that Hansen will profit from finishing 2nd or 1st even more, then we simple have to up the payouts for his point of view and run the spot through an ICM calculator or a sheet of paper and adjust the results.
The SB's reshoving range is obviously a huge factor in the hand itself and plays an important role in the ICM calculation but is in no way involved in the discussion I am having with betgo.


Well done on wasting 3 minutes of my life!

Betgo was pointing out that the pay jumps were steep so there was less of an ICM factor ie $EV was closer to cEV than it would have been with a shallower pay out structure.

Borgata's advice that raise/folding was unprofitable was totally wrong. He put the sb on a range of 14%. Borgata made it clear that he was ignoring any nebulous "overlay" when he first gave his advice. Including nebulous "overlays" makes a nonsense of any analysis of hands.

Yes, cEV is clearly closer to $EV than with flat payouts but ICM still optimizes your decisions.


Same goes for you, go **** yourself and

What are you gonna do next, suck him off?

Of course I meant something like "reduces the effect of the ICM factor". I used the wrong words. I know this is taken into account in an ICM calculation.

Also, Cwoc meant r/c rather than r/f just now.

Like I say though, sorry for posting strategy in this forum.