hey guys,

played last session the mega satty for an ept package and following spot came up:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 700 Tournament, 40/80 Blinds 10 Ante (9 Spieler) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://de.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

saw flop | saw showdown

CO (t4,646)
Button (t5,232)
SB (t4,885)
BB (t5,238)
UTG (t4,281)
UTG+1 (t1,141)
Hero (MP1) (t5,073)
MP2 (t6,250)
MP3 (t8,886)

Hero's M: 24.16

Preflop: Hero ist MP1 mit Q, K
2 folds, Hero raises to t200, MP2 calls t200, 4 folds, BB calls t120

Flop: (t730) K, 10, 8 (3 Spieler)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets t520, 1 fold, Hero calls t520

Turn: (t1,770) 10 (2 Spieler)
Hero bets t480, MP2 calls t480

River: (t2,730) 7 (2 Spieler)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t5,040 (All-In), Hero ???

i´ll post my thoughts later on, hf guys

Think he probably has a hard time finding enough bluffs in his range to balance a sizing like this

Guess it depends on villains preflop tendencies but generally even tight ranges won't lack bluffs. Fwiw I think he can easily overbluff this situation if he jams j9s+ for value.

Under balanced approach overbet might be best solution for him ev wise but it seems it doesn't create any tough spot for you given your range is barely capped (or at least you can always adjust) and its a satty.
So it also can true he underbluffs badly w this sizing.

Anyway I guess you don't have to defend all of your Kx (however it depends on what you're doing ott) and this is your one of worst Kx combo. Calling bad Kx also sends some undesirable signals to villain.

Don't like donking turn at all when a very decent part of Villain's value range are boats.

What's your thought process behind betting turn so small?

Ya leading turn is pretty bad. Sucks you have a Q though, a lot of bluffs should be AQ/QJ

Feel same bout the turn lead. Would prob prefer c/r flop after bb folds, than c/c, lead

Its probably so read dependent. If hes balanced I'm pretty I know what Ide do. If hes not who knows. Mtt regs go in 2 different directions with this and the vast majority do 1 thing and very few do the other.

i think i would call v quickly. his flop sizing seems to exclude him from having Tx fwiw.

yes, good post.

i don't get why you say he can also underbluff badly for this sizing tho, it seems like a spot where he can easily overbluff badly and have v v v hard time underbluffing. are you just saying its a really bad spot for him to bluff so don't expect it to happen?

think KJ is the best bluffcatcher in our range as he might not flat AJo pre but would flat all AQo.

but who cares what "signals" we send man it's a weird multiway spot that doesn't come up often and imo it's not the best/relevant logic to say "ok we fold this combo and next time we call w/the correct combo." like in a spot where ppl haven't worked out their ranges and thus I think Hero calling can be immensely profitable it's not really a spot where blockers are gonna make or break the EV of the decision.

He leads turn small for value/protection- and since toilet shouldn't have much/if any 10x and oop c/c range included many 10x it's hard for villain to combat this sizing. Many strong players will take a strategy where they lead their entire range on this particular card bc ip will be forced to x extremely often

But this is true as well I think so I think using a combo like this for leading small on board pairing turn isn't all useful in this spot where he's mostly bluff catching and he also blocks qj w is most logical bluff. (Not sure if j9s is there very often)

Except for good players are still going to just call with their nutted hands which makes the river exceptionally difficult to play as evident here.

As played, I think you should b/f the river instead of check calling vs good players.

I guess ill just say it. That's why when we check were perceived to be capped and he can jam 100% of his range.

not c-betting here is a bit of a mistake with our hand.

leading turn is atrocious, lmao. Yes, some cash game players used this some time ago, but in totally different spots with different hands. Like had we defended bb and c/c that flop, we can lead turn small with our whole range, but leading here with TPGK does not make any sense.

Overall everyone talks nonsense here about "balanced" donk ranges, but all GTO machines have zero donk ranges almost everywhere.

OTR we have a meh bluffcatcher.

I agree with you. You look weak on flop action. OTT, your small bet may be perceived as a blocking bet.
Your check on river may be perceived as a give up.
For all of this reasons we can find bluffs in his range (jq, aj, aq, small PP). As u are perceived to be capped he would probably bet smaller for value.

But on the other hands he could have a boat and not raise OTT, waiting for actions from u OTR, so difficult choice

yea but if you lead the turn small like this a tough opponent is never folding and will make your life miserable on the river.....personally I think betting the flop and x/c two streets is the best line so he can unload with his AJ/QJ/whatever.....


as played I can't see folding - he only reps boats, our hand looks fairly weak, and why is he overbetting for value into a weak range? The Toilet is too capable to consider folding something this strong imo

I'm just saying why you do it
I personally think its not a great spot for it

How do you think he viewed your turn lead?

Seems that's the root question here

He can't rly make your life that miserable all you have to do is just x/snap w your tx (which oop has tons more of) and fold most of your other bluff catchers
Kq is a particularly bad combo for this bc we block Some obvious bluff combos
Also this is when ur supposed to over bet is when v has weak range

i like your line tbh. fold now. sucks having the Q

so the consensus is fold bc...why?

we have 80% vs. AQo, AJs, KTs, QJs, 88, we look really capped, and V is loose aggro (from what I know).

if we are range checking river then maybe xf KQ is fine as we will have Tx to xc with but wasn't sure that was the assumption here.

Forgot J9ss, QTss, JTss ATo, ATss etc

I don't think he's betting 3/4 pot into two players otf with Tx, that seems extremely unlikely.

J9s maybe but that is getting really loose pre from lowjack. I was generous to even give him KTs, I think.

I dont think you can discount Tx completely though especially in regards to your river decision as his overbetting range on the river should include some trip combos

Do you know who the_toilet is?