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Old 06-08-2012, 05:07 PM   #16
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

prob is a c/f
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:21 PM   #17
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

The only combinations we lose to is a set or AQ. imo.

I don't think villain overcall with A-4 and A-5. That said it is still unlikely you are in front, so I see a c/f as the best solution.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:07 PM   #18
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

Really sucks this spot because you're readless.

I just think this is a fold because it's really hard to put villain on air here. You surely can't give a random villain credit for turning Qx into a bluff here this early on? Apart from that the flop is rainbow and I think if he has worse Ax somehow here he wouldn't be shoving he'd be checking back or betting small imo.

AQ or a set makes a lot of sense for villain
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:20 PM   #19
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleEYE19 View Post
It's a pretty big assumption that a random calls the flop with AJ and shoves the rivers for value. It's an even bigger assumption that a random turns 99 into a bluff.
The thing is, even if he plays ALL of his AQ, 44, 55 and 88 combos like that we can still profitably call, should he play AJ like that every time and has no other hands in his range (just as an illustration). Admittedly, there are many players who wouldn't do that, but given he is an unknown/fish in the Big109, we should be able to come up with enough random hands to profitably call.

Also to all people who say we can't give Villain credit for turning hands into bluffs, I'd argue that there is a significant/non-negligible number of UNKNOWN players in the Big109 who do not even know what turning a hand into a bluff means and just randomly put their chips in there with a hand like 99 because they don't know any better.

Last edited by Pleex; 06-08-2012 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:07 PM   #20
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

hero folds
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:17 PM   #21
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

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Originally Posted by TStar II View Post
I'd like to know what we expect villain to show up with if we're check/calling here.
A lot of hands turned into bluffs IMO, hero is for almost sure betting 2 pair + on this river, a good player will turn a lot of pairs into bluffs knowing he's check folding here the vast majority of the time(90+% ?)..... All that being said it's really close, but readless i think i fold.

Edit, just re-read the hand history, i think i'd opt for a call, but really close.

Last edited by youngtajplayer; 06-08-2012 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:00 PM   #22
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

i am thinking 44,55,QJ,AJ..maybe A 10... think im calling this, pref jamming river though.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:03 PM   #23
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

23 and 67 got there.. sets play this way, AQ plays this way... you're not seeing worse aces when you call unless he has 2 pair... nothing missed, it looks like a fold once you check. I don't mind shoving river at all, you can get called by enough I think early in a big
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:12 PM   #24
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

So we basically don't have a calling range?
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:11 PM   #25
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

Was it you who played this hand? Looks terrible....
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:45 AM   #26
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

yea im probably just jamming otr myself
if your checking to induce then seems like an ez snap
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Old 06-10-2012, 01:46 AM   #27
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

Quote:
Originally Posted by streetwalkincheeta View Post
I'd make it slightly more pre and bet bet shove post.
yea this too
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Old 06-10-2012, 04:25 AM   #28
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

I like c/f...and I don't think it's that close as you think it is.

esp when you're readless on the villain so there's no reason to believe he's bluffing you here. If you've played decent amount of cash game (aka 100-150bb as opposed to 20-30bb mtt stack), you'd know AK is rarely good here.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:13 PM   #29
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

Why did you bet the turn?
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:50 AM   #30
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Re: 5th hand of Big 109

Read this thread to learn something, instead everyones answers show the exact conflict in my head, someone wanna pokerstove some ranges and show me why a call is correct, because my head says standard call and my intuition says fold readless
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