Not sure if serious but youd be getting it in if u were to c/r no? After flop u have 240k left the bet was 39k pre so lets say his cbet is 40 again, whatre u gonna do 90k/fold or make it big and call off?

Care to articulate as to why?

there is absolutely no way 5b/f is the best option

Obv villain owned you Chuck, and we all know that would've never happened had we man up and 17th bet pre, but we chickened out, saw 3, and when there are cards in the middle it's all luck, skill don't matter anymore, anybody can hit.

At least be glad he didn't show his bluff, because it HAD to be a bluff; there's no better hand in poker than Ace Queen, everybody knows that.

Preflop flatting ranges are for pussies

It's great seeing what you had knowing what he had.

This is actually a tricky icm spot where I have no idea what is best and am really not confident, however I am confident these rankings are bad.

We have figured out that he is capable of cold 4balling light in this somewhat standard spot to do it but we don't know if he can 6bet light over a 5bet over a cold 4bet. He's still just some 100ABI reg, and as long as we don't know he's graduated from ImDaNuts College we can't really assume that. I think that we are going to make a huge mistake if we get it in dominated and are wrong in the sense that he only 6bets the nuts, but if we play it the nitty way and get owned because he actually is a daize in disguise it's okay big picture-wise since we're still going to have a lot of chips, and the mistake we make there is much much smaller. Like when we jam into nizzles we light like $3k+ or whatever on fire, but when we get owned and 5b/fold we only get owned for a fraction of that.

I'm not a math guy so I didn't do the ICM math on this but my hunch says that he has to be shoving an absurd amount of worse aces and queens for a 5bet/call to be +$ev although it's obviously +cEV.

So when we 5bet/fold we might occasionally (against a random 100abi reg on ipoker this still has to be pretty rare) make a mistake when we fail to get it in against AJ or something. But what I think happens much more often IF he even wants to play back against us is that he'll just flat, often with hands that *we* dominate so he'll fold to cbets a lot and maybe sometimes stack off with worse hands on like Qxx flops etc. If he flats it's not a disaster, and if he really is oi enough to 6ball napkins there then good for him, next hand please.

I think shove is better than 5b/call for icm reasons but this could be proven wrong if someone could actually be arsed to do the math. It's obviously extremely +cEV to stick it in and even $ev-wise it doesn't feel like it's far away from 5b/fold.

I think 5b/call and flat the 4bet feel really close in value, and they both seem a notch worse than the previous two options. The downside of 5b/calling is the icm stuff and the downside of flatting the 4bet is that I don't know how we are going to own him on most flops we don't hit in some fashion since the pot is going to be slightly too big and our stacks are too short and we are OOP (if we were OTB I think calling would be way better).

Folding sucks because we have an ace and a queen against a guy who can cold 4b light.

I still think that it's all so close that even if we were a) suited or b) on the button calling would become the best option.



The above is just the way I see it but I'm eagerly awaiting for someone smarter than me to break this down since that's why I posted the hand anyway. Happy new year ****s!

I'm just an old nit who lacks imagination to beat anything above $10 fo, has never stacked off with less than AA pre and check/folds every time he misses the flop, so bare with me please:

Why we can't see 3 the first time around? We are not the CL, we don't have a hand that we feel comfortable getting it in pre for those stacks, yet we are ahead of his opening range, we will have showdown value in many runouts that miss...

Being a Chuckbass thread it's standard that flatting pre will not be given as an option in the OP, but I'm honestly surprised that after tons of posts nobody has suggested that line and/or criticized the button clicking that 3betting seems to imply, specially considering we're 2nd in chips facing an open from the CL and oop.

Yes ICM sucks, it's crap, we play FTW, nobody remembers 2nd places (except your mortgage bank, I know something bout that), and legends are forged in victory, but...hero didn't stack off pre, so question is: why did hero 3bet in the first place? For value? It didn't quite work out it seems. To "have the initiative" in the hand? That's another one on my list of "top 100 worthless poker concepts".

Sorry for the long rant, I'm back to reading the freerolls forum which is where I belong.

Happy new year y'all, love from Alaska, xoxox

we didn't face an open from the CL. we faced an open from a shorter stack and the CL cold 4bet.

Lol, I suck. Reading comprehension ftw

PS: The happy new year on my post remains valid

PS2: When we 3 bet the guy with 47bbs...are we getting it in pre?

Obv fistpump getting it in vs original raiser. I had been 3betting heaps so it's a pretty clear value 5b shove but what I think mostly happens is that they 4bet/fold and we print $$$.

Fair enough. Hope to see you in LV this summer Chuck, you seem like a cool fella to hang out with.

****, this new year thing brings the lamest part of me to surface #facepalm

I think the initial 3 bet is completely standard / fine, although arguments could certainly be made for a flat instead

LegitimizeMyFries - what did the other guy have? you can't just come in the thread and make a cryptic comment like that without elaborating

Not sure Badugi wants to reveal his true holdings in this thread

but basically Chuck got own after owned

so he had the AJ and was 4bet/calling?

lol

If you're 3-betting so much that you're expecting BB to 4-bet two uno cards (because he hasn't 4-bet yet, lol frequencies), and you're pretty uncomfortable with all of your options when you get 4-bet, maybe you should revisit how hard you pump your fist while 3-betting.

4 players
[SB] BakinWookies (277611)
[BB] BadugiPro (325911)
[1] realgh3part (90387)
[But] registeraccount (166091)

BadugiPro :9h :5s Initial Pot: 5250
realgh3part folds
registeraccount raises to 7000
BakinWookies raises to 19999
BadugiPro raises to 38550
registeraccount folds
BakinWookies calls 18551
### FLOP ### :6d :Ks :7c Pot: 84100
BakinWookies checks
BadugiPro bets 37220
BakinWookies folds

wp guy

I'm sure chuck appreciates you outing his ipoker name too

did you even read the original post?

lol clearly not

<- dolt

stand by the "wp guy" part tho

guess I should be berating chuck for outing his own ipoker name

Yeah not surprised by that, a pretty standard spot to do that in. Wonder what he'd have done against a 5bet tho

I'm half convinced this 95o thing is just to get chuck to keep thinking everyone is n-betting him light and playing super heroically

can't fathom 95o being a "standard" five bet here, obv he can be light but there are a bajillion hands to add into your range here before 95o, especially vs someone who is notorious for not folding / leveling themselves into heroic n-betting wars