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3bet shipping range against Fedor Holz ?! 3bet shipping range against Fedor Holz ?!

07-30-2015 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownUpGuy
given that you dont know exactly how wide I open or how lose I call but that it's very likely that I wont call you too light in that spot (but that I will after you shoved very lose repeatedly or get to showdown) I'd suggest you to shove

22-QQ, Ax+, K7o+, K2s+, Q8o+, Q2s+, J8o+, J2s+, T8o+, T5s+, 89o+, 96s+, 35s+, 45s+
and not have a flattingrange except KK+
in that specific spot.

You seemed pretty sad after I snapped you - that's the only reason I posted here. A8o was definitely a good shove.
Greetings from Austria
hey fedor, thanks for your answer.

boah ... your suggested shipping range looks extremly light for me ...
of course 87s but down to J2s, T5s ?!
have to calculate that ...

honestly, i was a little bit shocked when you snapped, because i expected a fold
i wasn't sad about the bust (it was a long way to the final table), i was sad or angry about my ship with that a dominated hand.
after some considerations i thought my minimum ship should be ATo+, A8s+, 87s+ and more undominated hands in this spot.

regards from the other side of austria
07-30-2015 , 10:28 AM
why would you tell people how to adjust to you
07-30-2015 , 01:10 PM
Bc fedor is/seems genuine a good guy
07-30-2015 , 01:37 PM
i think shoving 32o will show a profit depending on who you are/image etc. he's likely raising very very wide and calling (relatively) very very tight.
07-30-2015 , 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurSurveySays
i think shoving 32o will show a profit depending on who you are/image etc. he's likely raising very very wide and calling (relatively) very very tight.
07-30-2015 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownUpGuy

You seemed pretty sad after I snapped you - that's the only reason I posted here. A8o was definitely a good shove.
Fedor, I love you.
07-30-2015 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lissistinkt
why would you tell people how to adjust to you
1) Because he's the GOAT
2) Because if you adopt these exploitative ranges his counter-exploits are more profitable than his current exploits against your standard range anyways
07-31-2015 , 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
2) Because if you adopt these exploitative ranges his counter-exploits are more profitable than his current exploits against your standard range anyways
08-01-2015 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
1) Because he's the GOAT
2) Because if you adopt these exploitative ranges his counter-exploits are more profitable than his current exploits against your standard range anyways
08-03-2015 , 01:50 AM
Any pair, Any suited ace, A2o-A5o and A8o+, K9s+,K10o+, Q9s+, QJo+,J9s+,J10o+,109s+, 98s
08-03-2015 , 11:59 AM
Is fedor the undisputed mtt end boss now?
08-03-2015 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
1) Because he's the GOAT
2) Because if you adopt these exploitative ranges his counter-exploits are more profitable than his current exploits against your standard range anyways
#2
08-04-2015 , 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suspectdevice
Is fedor the undisputed mtt end boss now?
Yes.

Plus a super nice guy and great human being. In the same league person-wise as George Danzer. And he, George, is the absolute nuts.
08-04-2015 , 10:20 PM
so much trolling in this thread
08-05-2015 , 10:40 AM
As far as I can tell Pokerkaiser is the endboss of MTTs these days, he is ranked nr. 1 on pocketfives!
Long way to go Fedor but good effort so far.
08-05-2015 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kranke_EinZ
As far as I can tell Pokerkaiser is the endboss of MTTs these days, he is ranked nr. 1 on pocketfives!
Long way to go Fedor but good effort so far.
I totally concur with this , my good friend PokerKaiser is the No1 endboss of all mtts across all sites ! Including live.com !!!
08-05-2015 , 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OurSurveySays
i think shoving 32o will show a profit depending on who you are/image etc. he's likely raising very very wide and calling (relatively) very very tight.
This has to be correct given the jam range fedor actually suggested without a defend range. Even as good as fedor is, if he is opening that wide, then you can profitably play 100% of hands here with some mix of jamming/calling. If you're uncomfortable playing oop vs such a good player, then you can legit jam 100% here profitably.
08-05-2015 , 10:03 PM
mjw,

are you playing the $3k at Star this weekend?
08-06-2015 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw006
This has to be correct given the jam range fedor actually suggested without a defend range. Even as good as fedor is, if he is opening that wide, then you can profitably play 100% of hands here with some mix of jamming/calling. If you're uncomfortable playing oop vs such a good player, then you can legit jam 100% here profitably.
yeh flat aces, jam everything else obv.
08-08-2015 , 05:26 AM
lol feydor giving the losest shoving range known to mankind ITT v him he can now start raise calling 10Jo profitably in liveaments wpwp gg
08-08-2015 , 06:41 AM
Nonsense
08-09-2015 , 10:42 PM
Given the table conditions i would estimate fedor is opening about 29% of the range




Then the nash equillibirum for shoving would look like this





I dropped some marginal equity hands from BB´s range and estimate that this is the BB´s jamming range perceived by Fedor. BB moved from shoving 23% in nash equillibrium to 20% in reality.





In the above picture we have Fedor´s calling equities against perceived BB´s jamming range.

I dropped A7s from fedors calling range as it is pretty marginal. We could also drop Kqo but my butfeel says he is more likely to call Kqo than A7s.
So given fedors calling range BB could be shoving something like this






I myself would cut off all the hands with a +0.16 or lower and get a 32.4% shoving range.
These calculations are pretty conservative from fedors side as im basically assuming fedor will give hero respect for not being too out of line.
I think hero can shove safely atleast the nash and very likely even wider. Maybe taking away only hands with +0.16 or lower is still somewhat loose but hero could be shoving somewhere between 23% to 30%

Comparing flatting to jamming

Q8s has 43% equity against fedors opening range

Total pot: 9 * (0.125) + 1 + 0.5 + 2.25 + 1.25 = 6.125

Hero needs to call 1.25 to win 6.125 so he is getting odds 1 : 4.9 (20% equity required)

R = 0.2 / 0.43 = 46.5%

Hero needs to realize his equity 46.5% of time to breakeven with Q8s.

In a BB vs BTN situation where button opens a 50% range then BB should realize about 50 – 75% equity. As CO is opening a 30% range i take a rough estimate that BB could realize about 50% equity post flop.

So the EV of flatting Q8s should be:

0.43 * 0.5 * ( 6.125) – 1.25 = 0.07BB

For comparison Q8s EV in

Nash equillibirum: -0.11BB

Fedor giving villain respect: +0.49BB

Though its very popular nowdays to have wide BB flatting ranges then maybe it is more profitable to use an all-in strategy for the first few times when hero is given some respect
08-09-2015 , 11:45 PM
I think we can safely say when Fedor wants to jam 53s vs himself that he is opening significantly wider than 29%
08-10-2015 , 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seneca

Though its correct to have wide BB flatting ranges then maybe it is more profitable to use an all-in strategy for the first few times when hero is given some respect
fyp

also, what Demonic said (gg last night bruh)
08-10-2015 , 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonic16
I think we can safely say when Fedor wants to jam 53s vs himself that he is opening significantly wider than 29%
not true.

fedor can be opening 29% and with reasonable shove calling ranges for him 53s is already close to a jam.

if we take a few combos with the least EV away from fedors calling range then we get to the jamming range he suggested



if button is flat happy and SB is agressive then he definetely cannot be opening too wide. most of the profit comes from fold equity and taking the pot down immediately. not from from realizing 38% equity oop vs btn, battling with sb 3-bets and fighting BB to get him off his equity postflop.

so fedor still needs to be choosing his hands wisely to combat those scenarios. i think he could stretch his opening range up to 35% but that is tops

      
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