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00 liveament, was a 4-bet squeeze missed here? 00 liveament, was a 4-bet squeeze missed here?

09-28-2016 , 10:55 PM
$2,500 liveament, full table

V1 - 20s white kid, stereotypical headphones/glasses guy. Preflop LAG regardless of position, postflop predictable by the turn (i.e. often c/f's when he doesn't connect after flop c-bet).
Hero - at the moment probably has a LAG image himself, earning quazi-sarcastic remarks from 1 or 2 at the table who haven't seen much of my showdowns (all of my showdowns so far are winners)
V2 - 20s ??hispanic, a TAG/LAG, thinking player who I would consider dangerous because he hand reads well, makes patient decisions, seems to pick spots well and understands position play
Important to note, V1 and V2 have ??positive history with each other. They are joking with each other, sharing a phone charger, talking smack, I mean, who knows if they are friends and who gives a rip, but they have probably played/discussed many hands together.

250/500/75. V1 (stack ~25K) raises UTG to 1100. Three calls behind (all bigger stacks, no one dangerous/tricky, images irrelevant). Action folds to V2 in SB (stack ~60K), who raises to 5500. Generally, his raises are a kinda cavalier motion, that is, I haven't yet identified a tell indicating when he seems strong or weak. I am in the BB (my stack ~40K).

The more I think about this spot in hindsight, the more it seems like an excellent 4-bet spot. I decided to fold primarily because I thought my effective stack was awkward for a move. Deeper I make the move, shallower I make the move probably 80% of the time. I have some questions for those interested:
1) at 80BB eff vs V2, do we see +cEV in 4-betting light here? If so, what might your range look like?
2) assuming yes to question #1, is the plan 4-bet/fold? 4-bet/call if we think V2 is capable of 5-betting light? Just shove and hope your read is right?
3) assuming no to question #1, at what effective stacks are you 4-betting light? Because this V seems the prime candidate to do it against. Thanks for your constructive perspectives.
09-29-2016 , 12:31 AM
ask to borrow their phone charger, rip it in, gluck gg
09-29-2016 , 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman
tl;dr
I am behind the times with abbreviations....what does this mean?
09-29-2016 , 09:32 AM
Unless you have seen SB squeeze light, just move on to the next hand.

Stack sizes are awkward here as any reasonable 4! size commits you.
09-29-2016 , 11:43 AM
What are your cards
09-29-2016 , 12:43 PM
Would definitely 4bet light if Mercury was in retrograde.
09-29-2016 , 01:01 PM
U should know wat ur 4b range is in this spot before the fact
09-30-2016 , 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad1Lee
Would definitely 4bet light if Mercury was in retrograde.
Lol fantastic. My mother in law does all that astrology stuff and brings this up like every month. Over my head. If I believed it, Mercury retrograde I shouldn't even buy-in to the damn tournament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016
U should know wat ur 4b range is in this spot before the fact
A 4-bet value range is not my concern (value range I'm comfortable with planning for). It's a 4-bet bluff range that I'm seeking feedback on. I held A 6. In most other similar spots, I snap fold. But I tanked because I was intrigued by the relative position of V1 and V2 who knew each other and, given the three calls behind, V2 could 3! with ATC (assuming that level of thinking). This particular V2 is certainly capable of it.
09-30-2016 , 09:49 AM
Dude I gave you good advice. Im not gonna just spell out what a well constructed 4b range should be from vs co 3b v utg. What I will say is that a6s wouldn't be in it.
Sure you can give it the old college try and it may work. But this is called "clicking buttons"
09-30-2016 , 09:53 AM
seriously tho, don't 4bet. You have V1 to worry about, you have UTG+1 to worry about, you have V2 to worry about. It has to be a perfect storm, like V1 raising utg light (less likely since he is utg), utg+1 not trapping with KK/AA and V2 3betting 4 people oop light. That's too much factors to go on a hunch and do silly stuff based on "dynamics" and "dudes sharing a charger".

Like if V1 is co/btn and V2 is btn/sb, it would make sense to do it with blockers occasionaly, but not in your spot.
10-01-2016 , 12:15 PM
I'm just not a fan of this type of behavior... Your 4 bet I assume would be in the range of 2.3x of the 3 bet which is standard.. So around 13k... 5 villans in the pot...

I would like it more if UTG was deeper.. With him having 25k if he actually woke up with a hand and shoved you're then getting near 3 to 1 to make the call on his shove.. Which you're probably going to make with this price... A pretty big disaster at this point

5 villans... Shorter stacks... Not a fan.. But i'm not a big 4 bet light guy so what i do know
10-03-2016 , 07:53 AM
This play works vs scared money players. I've folded AK early in tourneys to plays like this - but I would like to see this play more towards the bubble.

In general though I think it's a major spew- and should be avoided if you want to consistently make it deep in the field.

      
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