No
Not at all. I have learned a lot here. Not so much about poker, but rather why reading post and taking time to try and give a reasonable explanation on why I would fold Ajo given the vague (and I do mean vague) variables that op gave us becomes more about pwning someone, trolling, and outright rudeness by a bunch of faceless people!

I do understand the 4 high situation and the fact that she did end up against the very hand she was trying to represent. That was not the point at all. Just never seen where her read went wrong there or what she thought her opponent's all in call range was.

Don't worry Dr. Scott, Steve Harris still likes you.

i think munk is getting ready to hit a live final table as we speak, I bet he could use some coaching up

really?
his 3B range is 20% and his all in call is KK+? Please? How many players fit that profile in the scenario that she was in? It was not a button blind situation, a bubbling situation, neither was super short stacked either iirc! Now that is less than level 1 thinking! no thought at all! Clueless!

Disreagrding the trolling and leveling going on, this thread is fairly indicative of different viewpoints of pros who's only goal is to win tournies, and non-pros who want to maximize their earning in 1 tournament.

If going out in 6th doesn't matter at all, go ahead and shove.

Crunching some numbers on my end, I come up with this: If the OR is opening 20%, you need his calling range to be 77+, AQo+, ATs+, KQs (based on being a medium stack going against a big stack) to resteal with anything.

BUt we actually have a hand here. OK... So say the above is true. That means he's folding roughly 60% of the time he opens and gets raised. So 60% of the time you win 5.5BB (ignoring the 2 blinds still left to act), and 40% of the time you're called by a range that you're only ahead of 2 hands in...

Is that +EV? Probably, sure. Is it the best play? Only if you're primary goal is to win the tourney and you don't care about an extra few grand in your pocket.

If for some reason, you think he's still opening crap like "75/J8 off", then yeah, fist pump shove, jump out of chair. But is he really still doing that with 6 left?

I'm a nit, but I'd much rather tangle with the smaller stacks, and not give the CL an excuse to try and get rid of his biggest threat. As described, the CL would need a damn strong hand to enter a pot that you've previously raised.

The variables aren't that vague. They are vague to you and probably a lot of other people who haven't put in the time and effort to study poker religiously/obsessively. If you put in the time to study how the game works rather than using confirmation bias from your own personal success then you would see why most of us think this is a shove rather than a fold and why your reasoning is off.

It's easy to see, from your response, that you haven't put much time into this game as you may think. If you're a doctor than you have the money to play larger buy in tournaments and since you are older from the sounds of it you probably played in a time when fields were much smaller and the play was a lot worse.

obviously that's not the exact situation, but guess what, she was in the best position to make estimates on 3b range and call ranges because she was at the table and neither of us were. It may or may not have been a good play, we don't have enough details, and the fact that he had AA that time is completely irrelevant.

Study the op's initial post. Where does it mention the positions of the opponents and their respective stack sizes based on their positions? Where does the other good player sit in relationship to the op? Where does it state when the next level is going to come up? How small is that small stack? How many rounds can he withstand? Is he going through the blinds or is he to the right of you? What are the payouts? Did CL's play vary at all based on his position. What hands did he actually have when he raised in ep? What hands did he have when he called a fairly large stack shove? Where were those variables?

I agree, if you are only looking at winning this thing, then by all means push AJo with the understanding that you could run into a bigger hand from the blinds and you have to add that into an equity equation, even if it is only a small consideration. I again thank masque for the math!

The AA part is only somewhat irrevelant as I am sure most poker players would have AA in their 3b hand ranges. Read my lips! I said she tried to represent the very hand he held! But really? He is only calling with KK+ and has a 20% 3 bet range? That one is funny dude!

please read. you asked for a way that mathematically it could be correct. i gave an extreme example, because I thought you could make the logical leap that if the play was correct with those ranges, there is a range of ranges that would make the play indisputably correct.

and yes everyone has AA in the 3b range and their calloff range, which is why, beyond just the 1 hand sample size/results orientedness, it's irrelevant. If he called her 24 shove with KJo, then we know his calloff range was wide. But since he showed only AA, for all we know the only hand he calls off is AA (NOTE: I'M NOT SAYING HIS CALL RANGE IS AA SO SAVE THE TYPING). I'm saying we have zero information based on him holding AA that clarifies his ranges AT ALL.

why ask for advice if you are going to be a ***** when people tell you you are wrong

Why the hell would an aggro CL only open 20% when most of the table's playing scared to move up pay jumps to the point that one of the supposedly more aggro players at the table is scared to shove over the open with AJ? Pretty sure I open like 40% in that spot.

I am fine with you guys playing that way. I agree it makes more sense for amateur players. I appreciate the lengthy analysis and pointing out the flaws in Vanessa's reasoning.

excellent posts masque

Last time I checked, pros play to make the most money. It's only rich business men who play for the trophy...