7500 starting stacks

Main Villain - WINAMAX Pro Team Patch younger guy who I didnt recognize...playing tight aggro style who just recently chipped up when my starting table broke and got moved to this new table....

Seconday Villain - Younger asian just got popped by main villain in decent sized pot in standard spot and is down to 1700 looking to get it in or bust as he was down to this stack an orbit earlier and was shipping light then quadrupled up then lost most of it to winamax dude...

two hands after main villain ran his stack up to this from little below starting stack...

Hero has folded since hes gotten to this table for roughly 3 orbits.

Secondary villain 1700 on BTN

Main Villain 21k in MP2

Hero 25k UTG +1

Blinds 150/300 ante 25

I have Black JJ

1 fold, HERO raises to 725, folds to main villain who CALLS, folds to BTN who JAMS for 1700, folds to me and I ask to see exactly how much Main Villain has to start he roughly shows me his big chips...I say "thank you, thats good enough" then 4-Bet to 3650 for isolation then Main Villain quickly 5-bets all in for 21,150.....HERO Calls?

****ty spot. I'll fold here for 70bbs. If he's willing to do this with worse, you'll have other shots to take his stack

Interesting. What about raising pre to 900 so that the secondary's jam doesn't reopen the betting? Hard to see in-game of course.

As played, I'd fold.

Against KK+, AK we have 40% when we need 39%.

I'm not sure how much the size of our stack matters necessarily. If it's +cEV it's +cEV.

I really like Howard's point, and it's something I definitely don't pay attention to enough. When there's a small stack like that behind, I think it's advantageous for Villain to be flatting monsters pre, because this exact spot where he re-pops you can come up a lot. That being said I'm not sure he does that play with QQ, he probably just 3-bets that. If he's not doing this light, he might just have KK+. But I think AK would play the same.

so maybe call?

I think this is an interesting spot and tricky to play.
When you make a minraise, your hand looks more like a marginal hand that is trying to isolate.

If villain is Guillaume Diaz I saw him make this play on a twitch with AK. The other pro who was in your place decided to call his huge all in with JJ, saying Diaz only could have AK.

I don't think he ll ever be light here and I don't think he ll afford loosing value with KK or AA vs ur 4bet. So only AK make sense for me.

It would be interesting to know how did he flat vs ur open : quickly, did he look at the shortstack stack,...

just played an almost identical setup to this hand. i was original raiser and ending up overshoving AK vs the cold caller and small shover. Cold caller had KK (70bbs) fwiw

clarification, please. I don't understand. Raise from 300 to 725 is a 325 raise. Raise to 900 would be 600, so jam to 1700 would be a full raise. Wouldn't hero have to raise to 1100 in order that the jam would not be a full raise?

Yes, well, this is why it's so hard to see this in-game. I had the thought right but the math wrong. Yes, it'd be 1100 unless you're permitted to bet in increments of a quarter, in which case 1025 will do it. That would be a raise of 725 and the shorty would have only 675 more.

I would probably fold in this spot. It was well played by the villain -- the short stacker puts you in a weird position, and villain exploited that.

Yeah I think you can fold here.

i call

We folded for 3 orbits, he stacked this asian guy who seems dgaf at this point, we 4bet in "protected" pot and he goes nuts for 70bigs at wsop?

he prolly think we try to iso our entire opening range (or big mayority of it) plus asking how much chips he has left it is not precisely a sign of strengh. Apart from this he snap shoves which takes out , in my opinion, the strongest part of his range (aa and kk). QQ he is very likely to 3bet i think.. so i think here he has mostly AK and TT-JJ and maybe some % of the times 99- aq type hands. Thats my read here so i call and if he have kk and aa gg and on to the next tourney.

Thanks for responses guys it is much appreciated...

I am kinda glad the room is split so I didnt feel like an idiot for thinking this isnt just the standard get it in or standard fold spot

And fwiw I think the table noticed i didnt enter a pot minus posting my blinds because when my starting table broke and I was moved to this table I sat down noticeably with more chips than anyone on this new table.

Results?

Yes, AK, QQ+ are only probable hands in his range and depending on the guy he may not be thrilled getting in AK for that amount either.

Man you people are such blasters. Easy fold and don't like the 4b.

RESULTS: I folded.....short stack showed up with AJ and winamax pro had AK.....woulda held and river was actually the one out J bird.

I think we gotta call, with the money out there and with the equity we have vs QQ+/AK. You can even discount KK+ a bit, those hands would 3bet a lot the first time and either flat or 5b small to your 4bet. I also think there's some chance the frenchy shows up with a lower pair here, in his mind you just have 100% or at least a large % of your opening range here, 4betting to isolate. The only argument against calling I have is you probably have <50% and it's a soft field where we might be able to do better. But this early I think we gotta go.

Also the "quickly goes all in" smells a lot like AK.

this is the best answer here. Fold and do NOT look back (too late , you already did by making this thread)

but ya, no regrets, good fold

If you're fine with taking a flip for your tournament life this early on then call. Seems more a matter of preference to me. This almost always 2 overs and QQ or worse. No pro is playing AA and KK that bad.